California Chrome Wins The Kentucky Derby

Started by Man o Taz, May 03, 2014, 03:46:04 PM

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Man o Taz

Thanks TTM.
"And Allah took a handful of southerly wind, blew His breath upon it, and created the horse.... Thou shall fly without wings, and conquer without any sword. Oh, horse" - old Bedouin saying.

Man o Taz

http://www.courier-journal.com/story/sports/horses/triple/2014/05/20/things-might-know-california-chrome/2278110/

10 Things You Might Not Know About California Chrome and his connections...

1. Chrome was almost called "Seabisquik"

2. This whole thing began as a tax write-off

3. California Chrome has two sisters

4. Chrome's dad was supposed to be Redattore

5. Fifth time was a charm for Steve Coburn

6. Chrome might have guardian angels

7. Coburn met his "family" after breaking his back

8. Chrome got a new jockey after two bad runs

9. Carolyn Coburn was the family horse-racing expert

10. Steve Coburn refuses to buy a new truck
"And Allah took a handful of southerly wind, blew His breath upon it, and created the horse.... Thou shall fly without wings, and conquer without any sword. Oh, horse" - old Bedouin saying.

Delamont

  :thumbsup:

Pretty cool!
Somebody bet on the gray!

Man o Taz

Excellent article by Gary West...

Monday, May 26, 2014
Numbers in Chrome's favor
By Gary West
Special to ESPN.com
http://espn.go.com/espn/print?id=10984591&type=story

The 11 Triple Crown winners emerged from foal crops that averaged 10,922. Increasing steadily, the foal numbers peaked in 1986, with 51,296, and from that large group emerged two great horses, Sunday Silence and Easy Goer. They were both good enough to sweep a Triple Crown, but neither was so good that he could beat the other with anything less than his best effort. Silver Charm, from a crop of 35,341, wasn't so superior that he could make a mistake and win; Smarty Jones, from a crop of 37,901, wasn't so superior that he could withstand several challenges and win.

And then there's the immense popularity of the series. The Triple Crown has become horse racing's only outpost in the popular culture, and that's especially true of the Derby. Casual observers know it. Everybody aims for it, dreams about it. And so again the numbers overwhelm. The Triple Crown champions won Derbies that averaged 13 starters (actually 13.45). Since 1978, the Derby has averaged 17 starters (17.44).

But the numbers, or at least the foal numbers, are trending in a direction that's favorable for another Triple Crown winner. The North American foal crop in 2011 was 25,500 (estimated by The Jockey Club), the smallest since 1975, or since Affirmed was born. The group's large enough to produce a truly superior horse, yet not so large that it's likely to produce two who are great or even several who are outstanding. And the numbers continue to decline, with estimates for 23,500 registered foals of 2012 and 23,000 of 2013. In other words, even though the Triple Crown's popularity ensures large fields for future races, the foal numbers argue for the increasing possibility of a standout.

Could California Chrome be such a standout? In five consecutive stakes victories this year, he has looked very much like it.
"And Allah took a handful of southerly wind, blew His breath upon it, and created the horse.... Thou shall fly without wings, and conquer without any sword. Oh, horse" - old Bedouin saying.

Man o Taz

Solid Breeding Season Spurs Optimism in California
http://www.drf.com/news/solid-breeding-season-spurs-optimism-california
"And Allah took a handful of southerly wind, blew His breath upon it, and created the horse.... Thou shall fly without wings, and conquer without any sword. Oh, horse" - old Bedouin saying.

The Tin Man

#35
Just read a DRF article saying that Junior's long term goal for the year is the Breeders' Cup Classic ...

That is incorrect. He'll be entered in 3 BC races ... The ONLY way he will run in the Classic is if Tonalist or Shared Belief does ...

Otherwise, look for him in a different BC race ... that either Tonalist or Shared Belief or BOTH are in.

Bank on it.

They ARE correct about the desire to be a prep in a race to be written for him at Los Alamitos though. Steve and company are very loyal to Los Al and would love to prep there for the track.

curtis

Quote from: The Tin Man on July 05, 2014, 11:20:34 PM
Just read a DRF article saying that Junior's long term goal for the year is the Breeders' Cup Classic ...

That is incorrect. He'll be entered in 3 BC races ... The ONLY way he will run in the Classic is if Tonalist or Shared Belief does ...

Otherwise, look for him in a different BC race ... that either Tonalist or Shared Belief or BOTH are in.

Bank on it.

They ARE correct about the desire to be a prep in a race to be written for him at Los Alamitos though. Steve and company are very loyal to Los Al and would love to prep there for the track.
What race would Shared Belief and Tonalist target if not the Classic?  I don't doubt the gossip that you're passing on but it sounds suspiciously like owner/trainer speak.

The Tin Man

Quote from: curtis on July 06, 2014, 09:17:55 PM
What race would Shared Belief and Tonalist target if not the Classic?  I don't doubt the gossip that you're passing on but it sounds suspiciously like owner/trainer speak.

The "gossip" is directly from the owner/trainer ... although I'm not sure why info directly from the owner/trainer would be considered "gossip" ... seems like a pretty good source to me.

Also ... for those speculating that there will be more than 1 prep race before the BC ... not gonna happen unless they do a total 180 ... definitely not in the plans as of right now.

Senator L

Shared Belief wiil be heading for the Pacific Classic and the BC classic, I would
think with a million dollar bonus. I think jr will get a race that is a 1 1/8
or less for his comeback imo
Should be some great end of summer racing :chickendance:

Man o Taz

I have to defer and trust in Shared Belief's connections.

Its a very big ask IMHO.

The Pacific Classic will be the Kentucky Derby on steroids for Shared Belief.

A horse usually gets 2-3 preps for a top 10 furlong race against other three year olds.

To have yet to face the best horses in your generation, and step right up into open company against elders could be a very tough spot.

However, I think I understand the thinking. It is sort of like Blame's entry in the Jockey Club Gold Cup - it was a true prep for the BC Classic. The connections knew he might not win the race, but it would get him ready to win the BC Classic. I think Mr. Hollendorfer is looking at the race this way too. He might not win, but he will be tested and ready for the BC Classic.

And then again, who is expected for the Pacific Classic? Game On Dude while incredible in the Santa Anita Handicap, does not appear to have recovered his form from that race. Majestic Harbor? Who knows what he'll do having finished 3rd on both turf and synthetic in his youth. Imperative is no monster either. Perhaps this is the year the older horses can be taken by the a three year old - even a lightly raced one. I would be worried about a European horse entering the race with Acclamation's pedigree. I just saw Side Glance run in the UN and he seems to me to be an older  horse that would be tough to reckon with in the Pacific Classic.

Its just a question of what you feel is a bigger challenge I guess - facing elders at 10 furlongs for the first time or travelling cross country. Untappable is the only horse entering the Haskell. He could walk away with a $1 million win there and still run in the Pacific Classic for the bonus...but it seems his connections want to keep him lightly raced to make certain his feet do not bother him. Zenyatta though was rumored to hate the Del Mar polytrack surface so I hope going 10 furlongs there does not bother Shared Belief.

I also wonder if Jungle Racing is ready to sell him after this year and that is why they are taking such an aggressive approach with him.   

Jr., on the other hand, has proven his mettle against the best of his generation this year all ready so I am not worried about him. He'll be fine no matter his prep.
"And Allah took a handful of southerly wind, blew His breath upon it, and created the horse.... Thou shall fly without wings, and conquer without any sword. Oh, horse" - old Bedouin saying.

curtis

Quote from: The Tin Man on July 06, 2014, 10:30:00 PM
The "gossip" is directly from the owner/trainer ... although I'm not sure why info directly from the owner/trainer would be considered "gossip" ... seems like a pretty good source to me.

Also ... for those speculating that there will be more than 1 prep race before the BC ... not gonna happen unless they do a total 180 ... definitely not in the plans as of right now.

Did they elaborate as to which three races?  Only two make much sense--The Classic and the Dirt Mile, I would assume the other would be the Mile given Lucky Pulpit's affection for turf.  The reason I'm referring to it as gossip is because, I don't believe these people are really telling you anything credible.  I'm not doubting that you're reporting what they are telling you, just its validity. 

For instance, a few weeks ago you reported that the connections didn't care about awards only what was best for the horse.  Now they are going to run in one prep and then a Breeder's Cup race and in that race they are going to chase Tonalist and or Shared Belief?  What is the point unless you are after an Eclipse award?  Here is another scenario.  Say Shared Belief comes up with a little problem or dislikes the new and, I assume, improved Santa Anita dirt as much as the old stuff.  I'm no huge fan of Team Dorf but I doubt he's going to throw a three-year-old gelding to the wolves--especially one with Shared Belief's future earning potential.  So he finds another spot for his horse and saves him for another Breeder's Cup.  Tonalist may not be at home on the type of glib surface for which Santa Anita is known and the connections decide that they might want to try the Breeder's Cup Turf--it's been done before look up Prized in 1989.  Clement, like Drysdale with Prized, knows how to win a big turf race.  So evidently California Chrome is going to run a 12f turf race off of a presumed 1 mile dirt prep?  If you want to do what is best for the horse run him in a prep at the Los Al fall meeting and then go the Malibu, Strub route.

My opinion is that the only Breeder's Cup race that makes sense to target, if you're hell-bent on going that route, is the Classic.  Winning it will clinch Horse of the Year and your stiffest competition will more than likely come from Will Take Charge who is always a slave to race shape due to his running style.  I suppose Mucho Macho Man could rejuvenate once again but I wouldn't count on it and then there is the aforementioned Tonalist whose running style at Santa Anita will probably mimic Will Take Charge.  Palace Malice, I think could be suspect going 10f in a race as hot as the BC Classic will be from gate to wire.  Shared Belief in my opinion, is the wild card.  I think a horse has to learn to run 10f so such a prep like the Pacific Classic would be good for him as the race looks like it come up a little light this year.

At any rate Tin Man, I don't mean to give you a hard time and I always love your enthusiasm.  I have been meaning to post some current pictures of Border Run.  He's doing so well he might make a comeback of his own in the show ring, at age 26, if my daughter's quarter horse can't get over his little problem in time for the county fair.  No matter what the horse is doing they'll tell you what's best, you just have to listen.

curtis

#41
Quote from: Man o Taz on July 07, 2014, 06:41:23 AM
I have to defer and trust in Shared Belief's connections.

Its a very big ask IMHO.

The Pacific Classic will be the Kentucky Derby on steroids for Shared Belief.

A horse usually gets 2-3 preps for a top 10 furlong race against other three year olds.

To have yet to face the best horses in your generation, and step right up into open company against elders could be a very tough spot.

However, I think I understand the thinking. It is sort of like Blame's entry in the Jockey Club Gold Cup - it was a true prep for the BC Classic. The connections knew he might not win the race, but it would get him ready to win the BC Classic. I think Mr. Hollendorfer is looking at the race this way too. He might not win, but he will be tested and ready for the BC Classic.

And then again, who is expected for the Pacific Classic? Game On Dude while incredible in the Santa Anita Handicap, does not appear to have recovered his form from that race. Majestic Harbor? Who knows what he'll do having finished 3rd on both turf and synthetic in his youth. Imperative is no monster either. Perhaps this is the year the older horses can be taken by the a three year old - even a lightly raced one. I would be worried about a European horse entering the race with Acclamation's pedigree. I just saw Side Glance run in the UN and he seems to me to be an older  horse that would be tough to reckon with in the Pacific Classic.

Its just a question of what you feel is a bigger challenge I guess - facing elders at 10 furlongs for the first time or travelling cross country. Untappable is the only horse entering the Haskell. He could walk away with a $1 million win there and still run in the Pacific Classic for the bonus...but it seems his connections want to keep him lightly raced to make certain his feet do not bother him. Zenyatta though was rumored to hate the Del Mar polytrack surface so I hope going 10 furlongs there does not bother Shared Belief.

I also wonder if Jungle Racing is ready to sell him after this year and that is why they are taking such an aggressive approach with him.   

Jr., on the other hand, has proven his mettle against the best of his generation this year all ready so I am not worried about him. He'll be fine no matter his prep.

I see what you are saying but I disagree with a few points.  I don't think you can equate prepping for the Derby with prepping for the Pacific Classic--especially because of the upcoming surface change, this being it's lame duck running on synthetic.  The Derby has the stiffest competition available.  The Pacific Classic has, since the advent of Polytrack, been devoid of much A-list depth.  This year looks to be especially light.  Since Shared Belief is proven on synthetic, I would think this is the perfect opportunity to try him at 10f versus older.  Hollendorfer will more than likely run some speed horse to bother Game on Dude only now he will have a horse to track them and take advantage unlike in the San Antonio and Gold Cup.  I know your just reporting a rumor but I never believed that Zenyatta hated Polytrack.  The only reason a horse hates a surface is if they are not comfortable on it and so they go into survival mode and protect themselves by slowing down--and not just to the extent in which they just eke out a win.  The only time I ever saw anything remotely like this happen to Zenyatta was in the early stages of her final race.  Her preference may have been the firmer synthetics at Santa Anita and Hollywood Park but she performed well enough at Del Mar.  It's taken them a few years but I believe that Del Mar has finally figured out how to make Polytrack a consistent surface in their locale.  If not for the reasons of having to redo the base and badly wanting a Breeder's Cup, Del Mar would probably be best served to keep the Polytrack or find a reasonable facsimile.  I would have no qualms about running Shared Belief over the surface.             

The Tin Man

#42
Curtis ... I haven't read your whole post yet (it's long) ...

One quick, seeming misunderstanding is that what I said, or at least meant to say, was they they will NOT have their course dictated by what outsiders or press deems is the best route to an Eclipse. Ergo ... they're not going to run in the BC Classic just because media or fans think they should.

They're perfectly happy with the 3 year old Eclipse.

They're eager to put Junior on the Turf. Per Steve, Art thinks he's going to be a monster on Turf.

One of the BC races they're going to nominate him for is likely to be on Turf. The most likely BC route will be whatever race Tonalist enters. They are eager to turn the tables on him with 4 good feet. They're uber-confident ... well ... at least Steve is. 

I'll read the rest later when I have more time.

P.S. - I don't think you're trying to be a jerk or anything, so no worries. I don't view you that way. :)

I think fortunately, only good people are posting here.

The Tin Man

#43
One add Curtis ...

If there were nothing riding on it but pride, Steve would want to beat Tonalist. He wants to prove his horse is better ... it's that simple.

But sure, he'd like an Eclipse too ... he figures beating Tonalist is a good way to get it. It's win win for him.

He's not concerned with proving Junior is the best race horse in the country ... but he IS concerned with proving beyond any shadow of a doubt that he's the best 3 year old.

He just basically wants to beat any 3 year old that people may think is better than CC though ... so that may entail beating Shared Belief too. But ... if he could only face one or the other, he wants Tonalist ... he wants revenge ... in a sporting way.

The Tin Man

#44
I don't think he's expecting Junior to be better than Palace Malice or Will Take Charge ... he's OK with that goal for next year. Right now it appears to be only 3 year old he's wanting to prove.

As far as the Turf BC entry? Not positive what distances they're looking at. I got the impression we're looking at 8 to 10 furlong races most likely. I think you're right about the Dirt Mile as one of the nominated races. I'm almost positive he mentioned that one specifically. Definitely leaning away from the Classic right now ... but may nominate it in case Tonalist or Shared Belief try it.

Keep in mind that things can ALWAYS change ... this is horse racing you know?  ;)

Just letting you know where things stand as of yesterday. We hung out with Steve and Carolyn all weekend at Los Al.

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