Justify retired

[BaroqueAgain1]

   The news we've been dreading just came through, announced on TVG: Triple Crown winner Justify has been retired.
   Frack.   

[curtis]

The only thing they really could have done was give him 90 days and then maybe you could go in the Malibu and the Pegasus. That wouldn't have increased his value a dime though, so what's the point?  I was against the idea of running him in the Derby in the first place—I understand why they did it, but it wasn't the best move in terms of longevity. Of course once the Derby was won it was in for a penny, in for a pound. I was glad when he won the Preakness because then I knew we'd see him in the Belmont. Win, lose or draw I figured the Belmont would be it.

[peeptoad]

The only thing they really could have done was give him 90 days and then maybe you could go in the Malibu and the Pegasus.

That's what I was hoping for, but it is what it is...

[BaroqueAgain1]

   Even though Justify did win the Triple Crown, I feel like we never really got a real idea of how good he was...or wasn't. Only ran six times, never faced older. It's a flimsy race record, even for modern times.
   His record pales when compared to other TC winners. Even Count Fleet, who was injured in his Belmont win and never raced again, ran (if I remember Watchmaker's article correctly) 18 times.
   American Pharoah was retired promptly after his Classic win, but at least he ran three times after the TC and beat older.
   I'm not saying Justify wasn't brilliant in his six races, but IMHO, racing historians are going to spend a fair amount of time asking; 'What was Justify, really?'

[curtis]

   Even though Justify did win the Triple Crown, I feel like we never really got a real idea of how good he was...or wasn't. Only ran six times, never faced older. It's a flimsy race record, even for modern times.
   His record pales when compared to other TC winners. Even Count Fleet, who was injured in his Belmont win and never raced again, ran (if I remember Watchmaker's article correctly) 18 times.
   American Pharoah was retired promptly after his Classic win, but at least he ran three times after the TC and beat older.
   I'm not saying Justify wasn't brilliant in his six races, but IMHO, racing historians are going to spend a fair amount of time asking; 'What was Justify, really?'

You're never going to know what a horse is in 6 starts. I was talking to my wife about Justify the other day and said if the Ghost of Classics Future, came to me in mid-January and said, "There's going to be a horse who'll make its' first start in February 18 and when he wins your jaw will drop, he'll go through a condition, he'll win the SA Derby and then the TC." I wouldn't have asked, "How will he compare?" I wouldn't have been able to wrap my head around it. He was pretty special and one of thirteen, whether he could beat Assault or Citation or American Pharoah isn't relevant. Could they do what he did?

[ElPrado]

I'm not going to try to compare him to other years. The horse ran against the opponents he ran against. It is useless to say he couldn't beat whoever he did not beat from other years. He never ran against them.
What he did was beat every horse that ran against him
That was enough.

[Raven]

Could he have done what they did?
Like run more than 6 races? Beat older horses,race as a 4yr old, race and win on turf,inspire children ,have books written about him and his connections 




Spiro

[ElPrado]

Who knows.
He did what he was told to do, with a flourish.
You can't blame the horse for cowardice, blame the owners.

[Raven]

All the others did what they were told to do to.
I dont blame the horse or the owners or the trainer, they had a nice run with him,  they put him on the self because we was nowhere close to a world beater that other TC winners were!

[stark]

Blame the owners for cowardice?

Shirley, you jest.

The insurance annual premium to keep running was about $4,200,000. 

On what planet does it make sense to keep running for another trophy for the mantle?

As we all know, being the good handicappers that we are, handicapping any given race is difficult enough to review the 10 horses facing each other in the 7th race.......yet for some unknown reason, those same otherwise bright individuals find it necessary to handicap horses that ran in 2018 with 1979 and 1973 and beyond while trying to determine who is best.....an impossible endeavor.

I do think Curtis was on the right path for whatever its worth.....NONE, NADA, ZERO of the others in the conversations could have done what Justify did. 

Might as well settle a few other discussions first......Ford or Chevy, Maryann or Ginger to name a couple without getting political

[curtis]

Blame the owners for cowardice?

Shirley, you jest.

The insurance annual premium to keep running was about $4,200,000. 

On what planet does it make sense to keep running for another trophy for the mantle?

As we all know, being the good handicappers that we are, handicapping any given race is difficult enough to review the 10 horses facing each other in the 7th race.......yet for some unknown reason, those same otherwise bright individuals find it necessary to handicap horses that ran in 2018 with 1979 and 1973 and beyond while trying to determine who is best.....an impossible endeavor.

I do think Curtis was on the right path for whatever its worth.....NONE, NADA, ZERO of the others in the conversations could have done what Justify did. 

Might as well settle a few other discussions first......Ford or Chevy, Maryann or Ginger to name a couple without getting political

You know when I was living in so. CA near Hollywood, I preferred Ginger, but now that I've bought a farm.......

[curtis]

All the others did what they were told to do to.
I dont blame the horse or the owners or the trainer, they had a nice run with him,  they put him on the self because we was nowhere close to a world beater that other TC winners were!

And your proof of this is?  Before the TC started, the prevailing consensus was what a strong, deep crop this was so now one horse proved to be the best and because of simple, present day economics, he can't possibly compare to twelve other horses through history, eleven of which raced in completely incomparable eras?  Sometimes, after reading some of these boards, I think the real money isn't in betting on these horses it's in designing a stylish tinfoil hat, the kind you could wear on Derby Day, to Saratoga or to Del Mar Opening Day.

[Raven]

No need to get personal

That's my opinion  and you can have yours
As for proof, we will  never have one, either way.

Some people might put him on a pedestal, but I'm not one of them. He was regressing right after the Derby

[stark]

I really don't get the "get personal" comments when having a good discussion. 
Are we suppose to agree on everything so that it's not personal?  Makes no sense to me.

Question.....when I read that some dummy wagered $50,000 to show on a mortal lock and lost, is it a personal comment or just a difference of opinion in wagering strategies if I refer to him as a dummy?

Anyhoo......this from the LA TIMES newsletter....

We asked our resident racing historian, Jon White, to look at how history will judge Justify.

"That Justify had only six lifetime starts no doubt is going to be viewed as a negative vis-a-vis his standing among the all-time greats in the eyes of many. That he never raced against older horses, unlike fellow recent Triple Crown winner American Pharoah, also will be held against Justify by many. American Pharoah did face older horses in his final career start when he put an exclamation point on his racing career with a 6 1/2-length victory in the Breeders' Cup Classic.

"On the other hand, it is a plus for Justify that he retires from racing with an aura of invincibility. It's also to Justify's credit that he managed to accomplish as much as he did in a relatively short period of time. The ride he took racing on from his debut victory at Santa Anita on Feb. 18 to his Belmont Stakes triumph on June 9 was extraordinary. He became the first Triple Crown winner who did not race at 2. He was the first Kentucky Derby winner who did not start at 2 since Apollo in 1882. He also broke the record for defeating the most total starters in the three Triple Crown races. Justify beat a total of 35 other starters in the three races, breaking the record of 32 set by War Admiral in 1937.

"Of this country's 13 Triple Crown winners, the only one besides Justify to not race after the Belmont Stakes was Count Fleet. Count Fleet was retired after he rapped an ankle during his 25-length tour de force in the 1943 Belmont. Despite not racing after the Belmont, Count Fleet ranked No. 5 on the BloodHorse magazine's list of the Top 100 Racehorses of the 20th Century, behind only No. 1 Man o' War, No. 2 Secretariat, No. 3 Citation and No. 4 Kelso.

"But while both Justify and Count Fleet were retired after the Belmont, Count Fleet's body of work certainly was much more robust than Justify's. Count Fleet won a total of 16 races compared to just six for Justify. Count Fleet was the 2-year-old male champion. Justify did not even race at 2.

"It is clear that Justify was 'a phenomenal talent,' as Bob Baffert said after the colt won the Santa Anita Derby in only his third lifetime start. But many understandably will downgrade Justify to some extent for not racing more than he did when trying to determine where he belongs among the sport's all-time greats."
http://www.latimes.com/sports/more/la-sp-horse-racing-newsletter-20180725-htmlstory.html

[curtis]

 

No need to get personal

That's my opinion  and you can have yours
As for proof, we will  never have one, either way.

Some people might put him on a pedestal, but I'm not one of them. He was regressing right after the Derby

I do apologize if you interpreted that I was labeling you with my comment. I did qualify it with "these boards," but I should have been more specific in terms of not referring to you personally.

The sport is based on disagreements, that's fine. Justify doesn't get the respect he deserves, in my opinion, for example his name is misspelled on the header for this thread. Things are different now all around. I'm a Dodger fan and a big Clayton Kershaw fan. Guys like Koufax, Drysdale and Sutton—Hall of Famers, all—were expected to and usually went 9 innings. Kershaw goes 7 and is breaking down physically at barely 30 years of age. Still a great pitcher though, just a different context.

Be well!