Here is what I am thinking in several categories...finish them later...
Horse of the Year
American Pharoah by acclamation. Will there even be any other horses voted in? Beholder?
Older Male
Honor Code
Record: 6-3-0-2
Next Race: Retired
Signature Races: G1 Whitney Handicap, G1 Metropolitan Handicap, G2 Gulfstream Park Handicap
Tonalist
Record: 6-2-2-1
Next Race: Cigar Mile
Signature Wins: G1 Jockey Club Gold Cup, G3 Westchester Stakes
Liam's Map
Record: 4-3-1-0
Next Race: Retired
Signature Wins: G1 BC Dirt Mile, G1 Woodward Stakes
Older Female
Beholder[/u]
Race Record:5-5-0-0
Next Race: Unknown
Signature Wins: G1 Zenyatta, G1 Pacific Classic, G1 Clement Hirsch, G3 Adoration Stakes
Does Beholder win the division unanimously? Tepin is a strong choice. If not, who are the other two? Stopchargingmaria with 1 G1 win in the BC or Sheer Drama with 2 G1 wins at 10 and 9 furlongs.
Tepin
Race Record: 7-5-2-0
Next Race: Unknown
Signature Wins: G1 BC Mile, G1 First Lady Stakes, G1 Just A Game, G2 Distaff Turf Mile
Sheer Drama
Race Record: 8-3-4-0
Next Race: Unknown
Signature Wins: G1 Personal Ensign, G1 Delaware handicap, G2 Royal Delta
Stopchargingmaria
Race Record: 5-3-1-0
Next Race: Unknown
Signature Wins: G1 BC Distaff, G3 Shuvee Handicap, G3 Allaire Dupont Distaff
Three Year Old Male
American Pharoah
Is this by acclamation or are there other entries?
Frosted
Race Record:8-2-3-1
Next Race: Unknown
Signature Wins: G1 Wood Memorial, G2 Pennsylvania Derby
Keen Ice
Race Record: 8-1-1-2
Next Race: Unknown
Signature Wins: G1 Travers Stakes
Three Year Old Filly
I'm A Chatterbox
Race Record: 8-4-2-1
Next Race: Unknown
Signature Wins: G1 Pennsylvania Derby, G2 Fairgrounds Oaks, G3 Rachel Alexandra1
Cavorting
Race Record: 5-3-0-0
Next Race: Unknown
Signature Wins: G1 Test, G2 Prioress
Curalina
Race Record: 6-3-1-2
Next Race: Unknown
Signature Wins: G1 Coaching Club American Oaks, G1 Acorn Stakes
Lady Eli
Race Record: 3-3-0-0
Next Race: Unknown
Signature Wins: G1 Belmont Oaks, G3 Appalachian
Lovely Maria
Race Record: 8-3-2-0
Next Race: Unknown
Signature Wins: G1 Ashland Stakes, G1 Kentucky Oaks
I think Tonalist may be more likely for the Cigar Mile rather than the Clark, unless Clement had a change in plans. That looks like it's going to be a good rendition of the race this year.
Regardless I think Honor Code for older male is appropriate. Why reward Liam's map for taking the easy path, although he beats HC any day in the brilliance department. Overall Honor Code has better wins on record.
eta: you also forgot the Whitney on Honor Code's resume.I'd say that trumps Liam since in their only head to head meeting HC defeated him.
Taz,
Honor Code won the Whitney also. :chickendance:
Quote from: peeptoad on November 10, 2015, 03:14:57 AM
I think Tonalist may be more likely for the Cigar Mile rather than the Clark, unless Clement had a change in plans. That looks like it's going to be a good rendition of the race this year.
Regardless I think Honor Code for older male is appropriate. Why reward Liam's map for taking the easy path, although he beats HC any day in the brilliance department. Overall Honor Code has better wins on record.
eta: you also forgot the Whitney on Honor Code's resume.I'd say that trumps Liam since in their only head to head meeting HC defeated him.
By not contesting the Cigar Mile or the Clark, any of those Older Males are taking the easy path, if they're sound. In fact, I don't understand why American Pharoah isn't competing in the Cigar Mile. It's a one-turn mile, saddle him up and let him roll. Hopefully he has 25-30 years or so to recover. If Tonalist wins, I'd give him the award for not standing in his stall. Don't reward connections for standing around and muttering "Dare I eat a peach."
Quote from: curtis on November 10, 2015, 03:12:06 PM
By not contesting the Cigar Mile or the Clark, any of those Older Males are taking the easy path, if they're sound. In fact, I don't understand why American Pharoah isn't competing in the Cigar Mile. It's a one-turn mile, saddle him up and let him roll. Hopefully he has 25-30 years or so to recover. If Tonalist wins, I'd give him the award for not standing in his stall. Don't reward connections for standing around and muttering "Dare I eat a peach."
Well, yes, this is true if the goal is the year end award. I guess for most it might be, but maybe some more than others. ?
If Tonalist runs in the Cigar Mile and finishes up the track I don't think that exactly aids his cause, even if one is taking he stance of not rewarding the horse that doesn't even try... in that case the horse that stayed in the barn had the overall better record, beat Tonalist twice prior, and then wouldn't have another loss on his resume. ? OTOH, if Tonalist wins that gives him another G1, matching HC's 2 G1s and then the argument becomes stronger. I still think HC would get since he beat Tonalist all three times they met on the track this year...
I don't know... just thinking aloud. These awards are pretty purely subjective right now anyway.
Quote from: curtis on November 10, 2015, 03:12:06 PM
By not contesting the Cigar Mile or the Clark, any of those Older Males are taking the easy path, if they're sound. In fact, I don't understand why American Pharoah isn't competing in the Cigar Mile. It's a one-turn mile, saddle him up and let him roll. Hopefully he has 25-30 years or so to recover. If Tonalist wins, I'd give him the award for not standing in his stall. Don't reward connections for standing around and muttering "Dare I eat a peach."
Well I would love to see American Pharoah in this race. However, despite not beginning the year until mid-March he did race 8 times, 7 of them G1s and he won 6 of them. He has nothing left to prove in my mind. Sure some want to suggest that if he had been pressed with a faster pace he would have caved, but this ignores that there were explanations for his loss in the Travers Stakes. HIs win in the Breeders Cup Classic showed that the Travers was an aberration. No way he ever loses to Keen Ice again.
And for that matter, where are Keen Ice and Frosted? Why aren't they in this race? Granted they both are bred for further, but this is the last marquee race of the year in NY.
Regarding the suggestion that Tonalist over Honor Code if he wins the Cigar Mile, I just think the other races had better fields, more prestige, and Honor Code finished ahead of Tonalist in each race. Now, because Honor Code has been retired, he is to be stigmatized because he is not in the gate?
If Tonalist wanted year end honors he should enter the Clark Handicap and win a race at Churchill Downs, outside of NY. Honor Code did that with his win in the G2 Gulfstream Park Handicap. Tonalist still has yet to get a graded stakes win outside of Belmont Park. Granted Aqueduct is a baby step, but if his team really wanted to demonstrate that Tonalist should get the older male award they should put to rest the speculation that he cannot win outside of NY. We shall see who Tonalist's competition ends up being.
Quote from: afleetphil on November 10, 2015, 01:21:23 PM
Taz,
Honor Code won the Whitney also. :chickendance:
Thanks - you an peeptoad are keeping me honest. :-)
Quote from: peeptoad on November 11, 2015, 05:14:38 AM
Well, yes, this is true if the goal is the year end award. I guess for most it might be, but maybe some more than others. ?
If Tonalist runs in the Cigar Mile and finishes up the track I don't think that exactly aids his cause, even if one is taking he stance of not rewarding the horse that doesn't even try... in that case the horse that stayed in the barn had the overall better record, beat Tonalist twice prior, and then wouldn't have another loss on his resume. ? OTOH, if Tonalist wins that gives him another G1, matching HC's 2 G1s and then the argument becomes stronger. I still think HC would get since he beat Tonalist all three times they met on the track this year...
I don't know... just thinking aloud. These awards are pretty purely subjective right now anyway.
They always have been, which is why Exceller in 1978, Great Communicator in 1988 and Gentlemen in 1997 got nothing for their efforts.
My point is that if connections are rewarded for not running, then the system is broken. Look at 2013. Going into the BC there was minimal, if any, talk of Wise Dan being Horse of the Year. Then he wins the Mile and Game On Dude runs poorly in the Classic. Suddenly Wise Dan's the favorite for the award. There was no clear cut favorite for the award, really. I said on here that Wise Dan should have went to the Clark--a race he had won in the past--to face off with Will Take Charge and Game On Dude who were realistically his biggest rivals for the award. The response, for the most part, was that running in the Clark could only hurt him and not help him. He did sit out, the other two engaged in a very good race, and Wise Dan won the award. This thinking is what is wrong with the whole system, in my opinion. The two best, most talented older dirt males that ran this year, in my opinion, are Shared Belief and Liam's Map and the latter is part of the problem. Neither horse will get much consideration for the Eclipse, however because voters tend to count up G1's. It seems to me there is still some Gr.1's to be run, that count.
Quote from: Man o Taz on November 11, 2015, 11:30:56 AM
Well I would love to see American Pharoah in this race. However, despite not beginning the year until mid-March he did race 8 times, 7 of them G1s and he won 6 of them. He has nothing left to prove in my mind. Sure some want to suggest that if he had been pressed with a faster pace he would have caved, but this ignores that there were explanations for his loss in the Travers Stakes. HIs win in the Breeders Cup Classic showed that the Travers was an aberration. No way he ever loses to Keen Ice again.
And for that matter, where are Keen Ice and Frosted? Why aren't they in this race? Granted they both are bred for further, but this is the last marquee race of the year in NY.
Regarding the suggestion that Tonalist over Honor Code if he wins the Cigar Mile, I just think the other races had better fields, more prestige, and Honor Code finished ahead of Tonalist in each race. Now, because Honor Code has been retired, he is to be stigmatized because he is not in the gate?
If Tonalist wanted year end honors he should enter the Clark Handicap and win a race at Churchill Downs, outside of NY. Honor Code did that with his win in the G2 Gulfstream Park Handicap. Tonalist still has yet to get a graded stakes win outside of Belmont Park. Granted Aqueduct is a baby step, but if his team really wanted to demonstrate that Tonalist should get the older male award they should put to rest the speculation that he cannot win outside of NY. We shall see who Tonalist's competition ends up being.
Sure, why does he need to be retired now instead of the end of the month? It's not like it's going to impact next year's breeding season. He's supposed to be the country's best miler and he's passing up a Gr.1 mile? He's a horse who finished the year on a two race losing streak one at odds on. That's award worthy.
Male Sprinter
Runhappy
Race Record: 5-5-0-0
Next Race: Unknown
Signature Wins: G1 BC Sprint over Private Zone; G1 King's Bishop, G3 Phoenix Stakes
Private Zone
Race Record: 6-3-2-1
Next Race: Unknown
Signature Wins: G1 Forego, G2 Churchill Stakes, G3 Belmont Sprint Championship
Rock Fall
Race Record: 5-5-0-0
Signature Wins: G1 Vosburgh, G1 Alfred G. Vanderbilt, G2 True North
This would not just be a sentimental vote. Rock Fall actually possesses the strongest graded stakes resume for the award. He contested only sprint races. He won all of his races. And he competed on the tough NY circuit against older horses the entire year besting Salutos Amigos, a good quality horse, twice.
If Private Zone were to contest and win the Cigar Mile over Tonalist I would give him the champion sprinter eclipse. He would have won 4 graded stakes. 2 G1s and raced from March to the end of November while Runhappy would have raced from July to November. Can Private Zone win the Eclipse even without contesting the Cigar Mile? He finished well in all his races (3 G1s vs. 2 for Runhappy) which were all graded stakes race and he entered more of the top sprint races than Runhappy did. Also, there is some controversy that is following Runhappy and he could lose some votes because of it. I think Runhappy will win, but it could get interesting.
Quote from: curtis on November 11, 2015, 11:40:58 AM
They always have been, which is why Exceller in 1978, Great Communicator in 1988 and Gentlemen in 1997 got nothing for their efforts.
My point is that if connections are rewarded for not running, then the system is broken. Look at 2013. Going into the BC there was minimal, if any, talk of Wise Dan being Horse of the Year. Then he wins the Mile and Game On Dude runs poorly in the Classic. Suddenly Wise Dan's the favorite for the award. There was no clear cut favorite for the award, really. I said on here that Wise Dan should have went to the Clark--a race he had won in the past--to face off with Will Take Charge and Game On Dude who were realistically his biggest rivals for the award. The response, for the most part, was that running in the Clark could only hurt him and not help him. He did sit out, the other two engaged in a very good race, and Wise Dan won the award. This thinking is what is wrong with the whole system, in my opinion. The two best, most talented older dirt males that ran this year, in my opinion, are Shared Belief and Liam's Map and the latter is part of the problem. Neither horse will get much consideration for the Eclipse, however because voters tend to count up G1's. It seems to me there is still some Gr.1's to be run, that count.
The system is broken and your point is well taken all things being equal. You gave one illustration why. Here is another. Princess of Sylmar stepped up and contested the BC Distaff and lost her champion three year old female award to Beholder. If she had stayed in the barn she would have won the award. I still thought that she should win it based upon the body of her work, but c'est la vie.
I think my point and maybe that of others is that all things are not equal if you have a horse that finishes behind another horse in 3 races that year against stronger fields with 1 field being a championship race. Then that other horse goes out and gets his stakes wins against weaker fields than the fields that Tonalist finished behind Honor Code in.
Wise Dan was 16th on the 1st NTRA poll in 2012, the year he won Horse of the Year. Game On Dude, as you note, was 1st.
In early October, Wise Dan took the lead in the NTRA poll from Game On Dude.
In mid-October, Wise Dan extended his lead over Game On Dude in the NTRA poll.
Wise Dan did not come out of nowhere. The race was between Game On Dude and Wise Dan for horse of the year since the end of summer.
In July, Wise Dan was still back on the poll, but he had yet to contest Woodbine Mile and the Shadwell Turf Mile. As soon as he won these races, he passed Game On Dude in the poll. During the time Wise Dan was continuing his winning streak Game On Dude had split his two races with a 2nd in the Pacific Classic and a 1st in the Awesome Again. Also, Wise Dan did follow-up his Clark Handicap win with a strong 2nd place finish on dirt in the Stephen Foster to Ron The Greek who had won the Santa Anita Handicap. So, in the end Wise Dan had 3 G1 wins, a G2 win, a G3 win, and a runner-up finish in the G1 Stephen Foster to 4th place BC Classic finisher Ron The Greek (a 2 G1 winner that year) to go against Game On Dude's 2 G1 wins and 2 G2 wins and an awful showing in the BC Classic. Now, I wanted Game On Dude to win champion older male that year. I thought he was more deserving. He raced the entire year and did well in all his races save the BC Classic and DWC and all his races were on dirt. But I did support Wise Dan for HOTY.
Quote from: curtis on November 11, 2015, 11:40:58 AM
They always have been, which is why Exceller in 1978, Great Communicator in 1988 and Gentlemen in 1997 got nothing for their efforts.
My point is that if connections are rewarded for not running, then the system is broken. Look at 2013. Going into the BC there was minimal, if any, talk of Wise Dan being Horse of the Year. Then he wins the Mile and Game On Dude runs poorly in the Classic. Suddenly Wise Dan's the favorite for the award. There was no clear cut favorite for the award, really. I said on here that Wise Dan should have went to the Clark--a race he had won in the past--to face off with Will Take Charge and Game On Dude who were realistically his biggest rivals for the award. The response, for the most part, was that running in the Clark could only hurt him and not help him. He did sit out, the other two engaged in a very good race, and Wise Dan won the award. This thinking is what is wrong with the whole system, in my opinion. The two best, most talented older dirt males that ran this year, in my opinion, are Shared Belief and Liam's Map and the latter is part of the problem. Neither horse will get much consideration for the Eclipse, however because voters tend to count up G1's. It seems to me there is still some Gr.1's to be run, that count.
I completely agree with the bolded. IMHO the crux of this problem lies with the Breeder's Cup itself. It's supposed to be a "year end" championship meet, but the problem is it's neither the end of the year nor the end of top tier races for the year. Obviously not all G1 races are equal, but I think if there were fewer G1 races overall they would become higher caliber events and would force the top horses to run against each more often. It might have the effect of making the divisions more clear cut in terms of the individual horses.
I agree on Liam's Map being the most brilliantly talented. I think he probably trumps every dirt male horse that ran this year, including American Pharoah. Brilliance doesn't always equate to a stellar resume, and it often doesn't equate to consistency or frequent appearances.
Unless there are actual rules for Eclipse voting these discussion will continue on indefinitely (not that that is necessarily a bad thing).
Excellent point - peeptoad on G1 races, particularly post BC.
Older Male
Honor Code
Record: 6-3-0-2
Next Race: Retired
Signature Races: G1 Whitney Handicap, G1 Metropolitan Handicap, G2 Gulfstream Park Handicap
Tonalist
Record: 7-3-2-1
Signature Wins: G1 Cigar Mile, G1 Jockey Club Gold Cup, G3 Westchester Stakes
Liam's Map
Record: 4-3-1-0
Next Race: Retired
Signature Wins: G1 BC Dirt Mile, G1 Woodward Stakes
Effinex
Record: 8-4-1-1 (stakes record - 7-3-1-1)
Signature Wins: G1 Clark Handicap, G2 Suburban, G3 Excelsior
There is some talk about Effinex. I do not see it. But some do.
I still think Honor Code should get the Eclipse, despite Tonalist's very nice victory last weekend. The race records of all 3 main candidates are all fairly similar, but HC beat both of his foes on the track at various points during the year (the Whitney is really the clincher here imo), so I think think he should get it.
I don't buy the arguments from people saying Liam's Map appeared to be more talented (or brilliant), so he should get it. Honor Code beat him the only time they met and didn't feeb out into the Dirt Mile.
= Liam trumped
Respect to Effinex, but I don't think he should even be part of the discussion.
I think we are in full agreement.
I get the idea some are mentioning that Honor Code did lose his last two races - is 3-3 but he also showed well in some of the top races this year.
It will be interesting to see what happens.
Quote from: Man o Taz on November 11, 2015, 11:51:11 AM
Male Sprinter
Runhappy
Race Record: 5-5-0-0
Next Race: Unknown
Signature Wins: G1 BC Sprint over Private Zone; G1 King's Bishop, G3 Phoenix Stakes
Private Zone
Race Record: 6-3-2-1
Next Race: Unknown
Signature Wins: G1 Forego, G2 Churchill Stakes, G3 Belmont Sprint Championship
Rock Fall
Race Record: 5-5-0-0
Signature Wins: G1 Vosburgh, G1 Alfred G. Vanderbilt, G2 True North
This would not just be a sentimental vote. Rock Fall actually possesses the strongest graded stakes resume for the award. He contested only sprint races. He won all of his races. And he competed on the tough NY circuit against older horses the entire year besting Salutos Amigos, a good quality horse, twice.
If Private Zone were to contest and win the Cigar Mile over Tonalist I would give him the champion sprinter eclipse. He would have won 4 graded stakes. 2 G1s and raced from March to the end of November while Runhappy would have raced from July to November. Can Private Zone win the Eclipse even without contesting the Cigar Mile? He finished well in all his races (3 G1s vs. 2 for Runhappy) which were all graded stakes race and he entered more of the top sprint races than Runhappy did. Also, there is some controversy that is following Runhappy and he could lose some votes because of it. I think Runhappy will win, but it could get interesting.
With Runhappy's G1 win in the Malibu Stakes should he receive consideration for champion three year old male?
I think we all know that American Pharoah will win this award. However, there are 2nd and 3rd place balloting and I believe that Runhappy's campaign is stronger than Liam's Map who may received consideration for champion older male. After all, Runhappy has not been retired, he has won 3 G1 races now albeit 2 in restricted company, but he is a three year old.
I don't think it matters who the other candidates in Pharoah's division are... neither of them will even get sniffed by the voters.
Runhappy is a slam dunk for the sprint award though...
I agree. I just think it would be nice for Runhappy to be nominated for two Eclipse Awards.
Hopefully he stays healthy and we get to see full seasons from him at 4 and 5 as his connections have suggested.
Also, I hope Dortmund is also there among the finalists. He finished up a strong year with his 4th graded stakes win in the Native Diver - the only other 3 year old to win against older horses except Runhappy and American Pharoah in graded stakes that I am aware of.
Quote from: Man o Taz on December 30, 2015, 08:02:50 AM
I agree. I just think it would be nice for Runhappy to be nominated for two Eclipse Awards.
Hopefully he stays healthy and we get to see full seasons from him at 4 and 5 as his connections have suggested.
Also, I hope Dortmund is also there among the finalists. He finished up a strong year with his 4th graded stakes win in the Native Diver - the only other 3 year old to win against older horses except Runhappy and American Pharoah in graded stakes that I am aware of.
I look at it this way, there should be no other finalists for Champion Three-Year-Old Male. If a voter doesn't vote for American Pharoah, they should have their voting rights revoked. Second and Third are irrelevant in this case. As for Runhappy, I always take sprinters with a grain of salt. I've seen too many classy routers over the years beat the best sprinters at their own game--Forego, Ancient Title, Precisionist, Ferdinand, Unbridled, etc. There are a few BC Classic horses from the last few years who if entered in the Sprint would have won. Now Runhappy is reportedly going to stretch out and if he can do so, I'll reassess. Until he does, he's Groovy or Housebuster--nice horses, but limited.
Fair points. I grade all horses based upon their individual accomplishments and I think that the top three year olds of 2015 were American Pharoah. Dortmund and Runhappy.
Could Keen Ice and/or Frosted beat Runhappy at 6-7 furlongs? I do not know.
From Bloodhorse
https://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/articles/96941/american-pharoah-team-tops-eclipse-finalists
Not too many surprises.
Observations:
Runhappy is a worthy 3rd choice for HOTY. Like American Pharoah and Beholder he was pretty dominant setting a track record at his distance in the Breeders Cup, and proving himself the best 3 year old sprinter at a minimum, and perhaps the best sprinter in the country.
I wonder if Mohaymen is able to edge out Nyquist since many people seem to not be enthused by him. I do not think he will, but who knows.
I think the champion three year old nominees are interesting in what they all have in common. They all won multiple graded stakes and defeated older horses.
Golden Horn gets a nomination for best turf horse without securing a win in North America. That seems a bit curious especially since Flintshire won the Sword Dancer.
Found is a legitimate champion three year old filly. She only raced here once which probably means she will not win the award, but her defeat of the Arc of Triumph winner was spectacular.
Effinex did not make the final 3 in the older male category. He only had 3 stakes wins, but he did edge out Tonalist in the Suburban, though he lost to him by 12 lengths or so in the Jockey Club Gold Cup.
A case could have been made for Tepin to receive the nod for Horse of the Year, as well. She had an incredible year. I hope she wins turf female.
What do you think?
* Horse of the Year: American Pharoah, Beholder, Runhappy
* 2-year-old male: Airoforce, Mohaymen, Nyquist
* 2-year-old filly: Catch a Glimpse, Rachel's Valentina, Songbird
* 3-year-old male: American Pharoah, Dortmund, Runhappy
* 3-year-old filly: Found, I'm a Chatterbox, Stellar Wind
* Older dirt male: Honor Code , Liam's Map , Tonalist
* Older dirt female: Beholder, Sheer Drama, Stopchargingmaria
* Male sprinter: Private Zone, Rock Fall, Runhappy
* Female sprinter: La Verdad, Lady Shipman, Wavell Avenue
* Male turf horse: Big Blue Kitten, Golden Horn, The Pizza Man
* Female turf horse: Found (IRE), Stephanie's Kitten, Tepin
* Steeplechase horse: Bob Le Beau, Dawalan, Demonstrative
* Owner: Midwest Thoroughbreds, Inc., Kenneth and Sarah Ramsey, Zayat Stables
* Breeder: Darley, Ken and Sarah Ramsey, Zayat Stables
* Trainer: Bob Baffert, Chad Brown, Todd Pletcher
* Jockey: Javier Castellano, Victor Espinoza, Irad Ortiz Jr.
* Apprentice jockey: Eric Cancel, Angel Cruz, Tyler Gaffalione
American Pharoah's Horse of the Year campaign was much like Ken Griffey Jr's Hall of Fame campaign. Griffey's was decided in 1999 and Pharoah's in June. In the case of the equine, there should be no other nominations.
I agree. But acclamation is not an easy thing. We shall see just how many votes there were for Runhappy and Beholder. I would hazard a guess its more than were for someone other than Griffey.
Quote from: Man o Taz on January 11, 2016, 12:51:57 PM
I agree. But acclamation is not an easy thing. We shall see just how many votes there were for Runhappy and Beholder. I would hazard a guess its more than were for someone other than Griffey.
I love Beholder. She's the best mare I've seen since Azeri and is closing in on my top five but she wasn't horse of the year.
Runhappy is the proverbial nut to his blind squirrel connections. He's a nice horse--who should get a shot at getting 9f--but without the chaos and human interest stuff around him, he doesn't get nominated. When I see him I picture him singing the Scarecrow's song from the Wizzard of Oz only substitute trainer for brain. A first place vote for either of these horses can only stem from a personal grudge against Pharoah and his connections.
That is funny about Runhappy.
I liked Azeri a lot,but Blind Luck, Zenyatta, Rachel Alexandra and even Havre De Grace replaced her for me. I guess out of sight, out of mind.
I never did see her run in person, though, so maybe that's it.
And, as you note, now we have Beholder.
I thought the program ran very smoothly and the remarks were kept to a minimum in most cases. The longest remarks were from the presenter for the achievement of merit it seemed.
On the results, there were few surprises.
La Verdad was a surprise winner for me, but after looking at her performances that should not have been the case.
Songbrid and Nyquist were no surprise.
I felt bad for Victor Espinoza. We know he is headed for the hall of fame, but what he did on California Chrome and American Pharoah should have given him the Eclipse. Granted his numbers could not compare with Javier Castellano, but neither could Zayats as a breeder or owner , or Baffert as a trainer,compare with the other nominees there. If you make an exception for one, it should happen for all.
I thought Big Blue Kitten was a deserving winner over The Pizza Man.
I thought Ahmed Zayat's remarks were gracious and I liked how different family members got the spotlight.
Voter participation rate: 261/281= 92.88%
(Horse ages in parentheses where applicable; Country codes indicate a foreign breeding designation)
Two-Year-Old Male: Nyquist
Two-Year-Old Filly: Songbird
Three-Year-Old Male: American Pharoah
Three-Year-Old Filly: Stellar Wind
Older Dirt Male: Honor Code (4)
Older Dirt Female: Beholder (5)
Male Sprinter: Runhappy (3)
Female Sprinter: La Verdad (5)
Male Turf Horse: Big Blue Kitten (7)
Female Turf Horse: Tepin (4)
Steeplechase Horse: Dawalan (FR) (5)
Owner: Zayat Stables
Breeder: Zayat Stables
Trainer: Bob Baffert
Jockey: Javier Castellano
Apprentice Jockey: Tyler Gaffalione
Horse of the Year: American Pharoah
Two-Year-Old Male (Name, First-Place Votes)
Nyquist, 255; Mohaymen, 3; Voter Abstentions, 3.
Two-Year-Old Filly
Songbird, 260, Catch a Glimpse, 1.
Three-Year-Old Male
American Pharoah, 261.
Three-Year-Old Filly
Stellar Wind, 108; I'm a Chatterbox, 47; Found (IRE), 46; Lady Eli, 34; Lovely Maria, 12; Curalina, 11; Include Betty, 2; Voter Abstentions, 1.
Older Dirt Male
Honor Code, 126; Liam's Map, 95; Tonalist, 14; Effinex, 12; Shared Belief, 9; California Chrome, 3. Voter Abstentions, 2.
Older Dirt Female
Beholder, 256; Stopchargingmaria, 4; Sheer Drama, 1.
Male Sprinter
Runhappy, 255; Private Zone, 2; Rock Fall, 2; Mongolian Saturday, 1; Secret Circle, 1.
Female Sprinter
La Verdad, 98; Wavell Avenue, 90; Lady Shipman, 41; Cavorting, 19; Unbridled Forever, 5; Ageless, 1; Birdonthewire, 1; Fantastic Style, 1; Voter Abstentions, 5.
Male Turf Horse
Big Blue Kitten, 134; Golden Horn (GB), 63; The Pizza Man, 41; Flintshire, 18; Chiropractor, 1; Grand Arch, 1; Voter Abstentions, 3.
Female Turf Horse
Tepin, 211; Found (IRE), 38; Stephanie's Kitten, 8; Lady Eli, 2; Curvy (GB), 1; Voter Abstentions, 1.
Steeplechase Horse
Dawalan (FR), 165; Bob Le Beau (IRE), 47; African Oil (FR), 2; Demonstrative, 2; Grinding Speed, 1; Voter Abstentions, 44.
Owner
Zayat Stables, 220; Kenneth and Sarah Ramsey, 26; Midwest Thoroughbreds, Inc., 6; Reddam Racing, 2; Godolphin Racing, 1; Voter Abstentions, 6.
Breeder
Zayat Stables, 190; Kenneth and Sarah Ramsey, 39; Darley, 13; WinStar Farm, 5; Adena Springs, 4; Spendthrift Farm, 1; Stonestreet Thoroughbred Holdings, 1; Voter Abstentions, 8.
Trainer
Bob Baffert, 200; Todd Pletcher, 44; Chad Brown, 12; Karl Broberg, 1; Jerry Hollendorfer, 1; Voter Abstentions, 3.
Jockey
Javier Castellano, 184; Victor Espinoza, 70; Joe Bravo, 1; Pedro Monterrey, Jr., 1; Irad Ortiz, Jr., 1; Joel Rosario, 1; John Velazquez, 1; Voter Abstentions, 2.
Apprentice Jockey
Tyler Gaffalione, 149; Eric Cancel, 63; Angel Cruz, 9; Ashley Broussard, 6; David Lopez, 3; Jorge Robles, 1; Voter Abstentions, 30.
Horse of the Year
American Pharoah, 261.
http://www.paulickreport.com/news/the-biz/american-pharoah-unanimous-horse-of-the-year-champion/
Quote from: Man o Taz on January 21, 2016, 10:49:16 AM
I thought the program ran very smoothly and the remarks were kept to a minimum in most cases. The longest remarks were from the presenter for the achievement of merit it seemed.
On the results, there were few surprises.
La Verdad was a surprise winner for me, but after looking at her performances that should not have been the case.
Songbrid and Nyquist were no surprise.
I felt bad for Victor Espinoza. We know he is headed for the hall of fame, but what he did on California Chrome and American Pharoah should have given him the Eclipse. Granted his numbers could not compare with Javier Castellano, but neither could Zayats as a breeder or owner , or Baffert as a trainer,compare with the other nominees there. If you make an exception for one, it should happen for all.
I thought Big Blue Kitten was a deserving winner over The Pizza Man.
I thought Ahmed Zayat's remarks were gracious and I liked how different family members got the spotlight.
Voter participation rate: 261/281= 92.88%
(Horse ages in parentheses where applicable; Country codes indicate a foreign breeding designation)
Two-Year-Old Male: Nyquist
Two-Year-Old Filly: Songbird
Three-Year-Old Male: American Pharoah
Three-Year-Old Filly: Stellar Wind
Older Dirt Male: Honor Code (4)
Older Dirt Female: Beholder (5)
Male Sprinter: Runhappy (3)
Female Sprinter: La Verdad (5)
Male Turf Horse: Big Blue Kitten (7)
Female Turf Horse: Tepin (4)
Steeplechase Horse: Dawalan (FR) (5)
Owner: Zayat Stables
Breeder: Zayat Stables
Trainer: Bob Baffert
Jockey: Javier Castellano
Apprentice Jockey: Tyler Gaffalione
Horse of the Year: American Pharoah
Two-Year-Old Male (Name, First-Place Votes)
Nyquist, 255; Mohaymen, 3; Voter Abstentions, 3.
Two-Year-Old Filly
Songbird, 260, Catch a Glimpse, 1.
Three-Year-Old Male
American Pharoah, 261.
Three-Year-Old Filly
Stellar Wind, 108; I'm a Chatterbox, 47; Found (IRE), 46; Lady Eli, 34; Lovely Maria, 12; Curalina, 11; Include Betty, 2; Voter Abstentions, 1.
Older Dirt Male
Honor Code, 126; Liam's Map, 95; Tonalist, 14; Effinex, 12; Shared Belief, 9; California Chrome, 3. Voter Abstentions, 2.
Older Dirt Female
Beholder, 256; Stopchargingmaria, 4; Sheer Drama, 1.
Male Sprinter
Runhappy, 255; Private Zone, 2; Rock Fall, 2; Mongolian Saturday, 1; Secret Circle, 1.
Female Sprinter
La Verdad, 98; Wavell Avenue, 90; Lady Shipman, 41; Cavorting, 19; Unbridled Forever, 5; Ageless, 1; Birdonthewire, 1; Fantastic Style, 1; Voter Abstentions, 5.
Male Turf Horse
Big Blue Kitten, 134; Golden Horn (GB), 63; The Pizza Man, 41; Flintshire, 18; Chiropractor, 1; Grand Arch, 1; Voter Abstentions, 3.
Female Turf Horse
Tepin, 211; Found (IRE), 38; Stephanie's Kitten, 8; Lady Eli, 2; Curvy (GB), 1; Voter Abstentions, 1.
Steeplechase Horse
Dawalan (FR), 165; Bob Le Beau (IRE), 47; African Oil (FR), 2; Demonstrative, 2; Grinding Speed, 1; Voter Abstentions, 44.
Owner
Zayat Stables, 220; Kenneth and Sarah Ramsey, 26; Midwest Thoroughbreds, Inc., 6; Reddam Racing, 2; Godolphin Racing, 1; Voter Abstentions, 6.
Breeder
Zayat Stables, 190; Kenneth and Sarah Ramsey, 39; Darley, 13; WinStar Farm, 5; Adena Springs, 4; Spendthrift Farm, 1; Stonestreet Thoroughbred Holdings, 1; Voter Abstentions, 8.
Trainer
Bob Baffert, 200; Todd Pletcher, 44; Chad Brown, 12; Karl Broberg, 1; Jerry Hollendorfer, 1; Voter Abstentions, 3.
Jockey
Javier Castellano, 184; Victor Espinoza, 70; Joe Bravo, 1; Pedro Monterrey, Jr., 1; Irad Ortiz, Jr., 1; Joel Rosario, 1; John Velazquez, 1; Voter Abstentions, 2.
Apprentice Jockey
Tyler Gaffalione, 149; Eric Cancel, 63; Angel Cruz, 9; Ashley Broussard, 6; David Lopez, 3; Jorge Robles, 1; Voter Abstentions, 30.
Horse of the Year
American Pharoah, 261.
http://www.paulickreport.com/news/the-biz/american-pharoah-unanimous-horse-of-the-year-champion/
I agree about the general lack of surprises. I expressed my reservations about Honor Code before--I respect Tonalist's campaign more--but I can't argue as to his resume and obviously that was what the voters were looking at when they made their selections.
I disagree about Victor Espinoza though. Other than a few years early in the 2000's he has not been the best jock on his own circuit and that is even more true now. Being lucky enough to fall into the mount on Anerican Pharoah shouldn't net him an Eclipse award. I also don't understand what California Chrome has to do with it. The horse ran twice last year--only once in North America--and finished second both times. I don't remember who won in 1977 but I'd be surprised to find it was Jean Cruguet. Cauthen may have won in 1978--I don't remember--but I do remember that Laffit Pincay Jr.--ironically Sham's jockey--won in 1973. He deserved it to as he had a much better year than did Ron Turcotte. In the scheme of things I tend to believe that these awards are much ado about nothing but if they are to exist they should at least reflect historical accuracy and Javier Castellano had a much better year, and is currently a better rider, than Victor Espinoza.
Quote from: curtis on January 21, 2016, 12:12:21 PM
I agree about the general lack of surprises. I expressed my reservations about Honor Code before--I respect Tonalist's campaign more--but I can't argue as to his resume and obviously that was what the voters were looking at when they made their selections.
I disagree about Victor Espinoza though. Other than a few years early in the 2000's he has not been the best jock on his own circuit and that is even more true now. Being lucky enough to fall into the mount on Anerican Pharoah shouldn't net him an Eclipse award. I also don't understand what California Chrome has to do with it. The horse ran twice last year--only once in North America--and finished second both times. I don't remember who won in 1977 but I'd be surprised to find it was Jean Cruguet. Cauthen may have won in 1978--I don't remember--but I do remember that Laffit Pincay Jr.--ironically Sham's jockey--won in 1973. He deserved it to as he had a much better year than did Ron Turcotte. In the scheme of things I tend to believe that these awards are much ado about nothing but if they are to exist they should at least reflect historical accuracy and Javier Castellano had a much better year, and is currently a better rider, than Victor Espinoza.
Honor Code or Tonalist I would have been fine with. Tonalist ran in all the top races. His one issue I felt was how he finished in the BC Classic. I think that may have been where HC edged him. Liam's Map ran some great races, but I really had reservations with his opting out of the BC Classic.
Regarding Espinoza, is Baffert the leading trainer in California? I thought that was Hollendorfer. I could be mistaken. If it is Hollendorfer, then not only were his numbers less than the other nominees, but even in CA he was not the leader. Also, Zayat was not the leader for breeder or owner and he got it so really numbers should not matter. Ironically, Cruguet did not win it in 1977 because Steve Cauthen won it. He also won top apprentice jockey. The following year, Cauthen did not win it, Darrel McHargue did as the leading money earning jockey. In 1977, Maxwell Gluck won the Award for leading owner. In 1977, E.P. Taylor won the award for leading breeder. In 1978, Harborview Farm won the award for leading owner and breeder, and owner in 1979 too, but then again they did have a 2 time HOTY. In 1977 and 1978, Laz Barrera won the Eclipse for outstanding trainer. He was also named outstanding trainer in 1976 and 1979 so the feat does not seem like it was linked directly to Affirmed - at least not in 1976.
It seemed all the accolades in 2015 were tied to the connection with American Pharoah. That being the case, it seems that they similarly should attach to the jockey to be consistent. I do not dispute that Castellano was well deserving. Only that for consistency sake Espinoza should have received the award.
I should have remembered Darrel McHargue as he was based in so. CA that year and he won everything in sight. From 1974 through roughly the end of the decade, Hollywood Park staged an All-Star Jockey race. Because of that race a wave of riders based elsewhere moved their tack to so. CA. The first was Sandy Hawley, then McHargue, then Chris McCarron and Eddie Delahoussaye. That silly little annual race created one of the strongest jockey colonies of all time. Max Gluck bred and raced both two-year-old champions in 1973 but probably did not win anything due to Secretariat.
Hollendorfer will almost always win more races than Baffert because he hasn't completely given up his cheap horses. For years Charlie Whittingham was the top trainer in so. CA but trainers like Farrell Jones, Bobby Frankel and Gary Jones had more winners. Laz Barerra--who did train Derby/Belmont winner Bold Forbes in 1976--was around too, then.
I'd give Martin Garcia as much credit as I would Espinoza for American Pharoah's success. Just because the voters may not have got the other categories correct, doesn't mean they should have compounded it by giving Espinoza the trophy. He's having a great career that as you mentioned will get him eventually enshrined at Saratoga. At this point though he's adding numbers to his stats not putting up outstanding individual seasons.
Thanks for the insights regarding the So Cal colony. I miss Rafael Bejarano a lot, but do not blame him one bit.
And you are absolutely right. Garcia deserves a lot more credit. I thought Victor Espinoza rode AP in some of his works, but I was never able to find any confirmation of that. Martin did them all. Espinoza got lucky in being able to take over the mount. And I wonder if Espinoza is also to blame somewhat for AP's loss in the Travers. Espinoza said post-race he could tell in the post-parade he was not 100%. That may be why he did not press him to go faster earlier which I would agree with. But if you knew he was not 100%, why after a half mile would you engaged Frosted? Why not just let him go by? When asked what he would do differently, Espinoza said he would have went faster earlier? I was confused by that because AP had rated fine in Arkansas, Kentucky and New Jersey, so why would you use a horse not 100% earlier when you did not have to and could just let the other horse go by, save your horse for one run, and then catch him in the stretch? Who knows.
Quote from: Man o Taz on January 22, 2016, 08:48:43 AM
Thanks for the insights regarding the So Cal colony. I miss Rafael Bejarano a lot, but do not blame him one bit.
And you are absolutely right. Garcia deserves a lot more credit. I thought Victor Espinoza rode AP in some of his works, but I was never able to find any confirmation of that. Martin did them all. Espinoza got lucky in being able to take over the mount. And I wonder if Espinoza is also to blame somewhat for AP's loss in the Travers. Espinoza said post-race he could tell in the post-parade he was not 100%. That may be why he did not press him to go faster earlier which I would agree with. But if you knew he was not 100%, why after a half mile would you engaged Frosted? Why not just let him go by? When asked what he would do differently, Espinoza said he would have went faster earlier? I was confused by that because AP had rated fine in Arkansas, Kentucky and New Jersey, so why would you use a horse not 100% earlier when you did not have to and could just let the other horse go by, save your horse for one run, and then catch him in the stretch? Who knows.
I don't want to speak for Victor but what I think he meant was he should have sent Pharoah harder from the gate and established a more commanding advantage. Being so tractable, Pharoah then could have been reeled in a bit. Instead, he was put in a position where Frosted made him quite uncomfortable. I've only ridden TB's at a canter--well, on purpose😏--and they're very competitive. It would be hard after they established the lead to acquiesce and give it up expecting to come back later. Besides, I don't think Lezcano wanted the lead as much as he wanted to bully Pharoah. I think Espinoza did fine, it's just that he was put into a tough spot, ultimately too tough a spot. There's an old saying that it doesn't matter if the melon hits the rock or the rock hits the melon, it's never good for the melon. On Travers day, Victor and American Pharoah were the melon.
I've only ridden a racehorse wise a retired standardbred and as much as they have a nicer demeanor, they are still competitive and want to get into a gallop so I cannot even imagine what its like to ride a thoroughbred so I get your meaning. I think Victor eased up on him because he was not 100% and I get your point that once Lezcano bugged him it was too late.