HORSE RELATED TRIVIA

Started by Raven, October 30, 2013, 12:31:58 PM

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Raven

Dr Fager, 1968,Arlington Handicap?
call no man happy till he dies. ~SOLON~

Blue Jeans

#151
Quote from: curtis on December 11, 2013, 11:04:40 AM
Name the horse, race and year in which the fastest 10f on dirt was achieved by an American three-year-old.


Spectacular Bid ran the 10F distance in 1:57.80 in the 1979 Meadowlands Cup (?) ... distance was changed in 1990 to 9F.
A horse doesn't care how much you know, until he knows how much you care. ~Pat Parelli

Horse sense, n.: Stable thinking. ~Author Unknown

curtis

Quote from: Blue Jeans on December 11, 2013, 02:02:50 PM

Spectacular Bid ran the 10F distance in 1:57.80 in the 1979 Meadowlands Cup (?) ... distance was changed in 1990 to 9F.

Spectacular Bid's world record of 1:57 4/5 for 10f was set in the Strub Stakes at Santa Anita during his four-year-old season.  It took Bid 2:01 3/5 to traverse the same distance at the Meadowlands during the fall of his three-year-old season.  Thus, Spectacular Bid is not the correct answer.

The horse in question did not race in any of the classics.  He raced three seasons--at ages three, four and five--and finished each season with the same race, the same race in which he ran the fastest 10f for a three-year-old.  Though it is the fastest 10f ever run at the track at which he ran the race in question, it is no longer recognized as that track's record for the distance.  The horse was not disqualified.  He was a stablemate of Cougar II. They competed against one another once.

curtis

Quote from: Raven on December 11, 2013, 01:15:34 PM
Dr Fager, 1968,Arlington Handicap?

Sorry I skipped this, but though a good guess, Dr. Fager is incorrect.

Flanders

This is just a guess since I'm having a hard time finding out if he ran in the Gold Cup more than once. 

Quack, 1972, Hollywood Gold Cup (1:58.20)

Blue Jeans

A horse doesn't care how much you know, until he knows how much you care. ~Pat Parelli

Horse sense, n.: Stable thinking. ~Author Unknown

curtis

Quote from: Flanders on December 11, 2013, 10:48:13 PM
This is just a guess since I'm having a hard time finding out if he ran in the Gold Cup more than once. 

Quack, 1972, Hollywood Gold Cup (1:58.20)

Correct!  Quack competed in the Hollywood Gold Cup three times; winning in 1972, finishing second in a photo in 1973 (a very famous running due to a musical jockeys game initiated by Mary Jones the owner of Cougar II) and unplaced in 1974.  His time in 1972 equalled the then world record of Noor's which had beed set in the 1950 Golden Gate Handicap.  Except for the two with which I live, Quack was easily my favorite thoroughbred.  Quack is the broodmare sire of California stallion Kafwain and the Baffert's fairly recent Gr.1 type, Misremembered.  Quack was massive, similar in size to Forego and if not for ankles the size and consistency of grapefruit, might have been as good as any horse in the country the years he raced.  Whittingham always said he couldn't train him but he could run him.  He used to try to keep Quack racing fit by having him log time in an aqua treadmill and by galloping 3-4 miles clockwise around the track.  Whittingham and jockey Don Pierce always lamented that Quack was a short horse in the last three 10f races in which he competed.  The horse just wasn't sound enough to train properly.

curtis

Quote from: Blue Jeans on December 12, 2013, 06:38:47 AM
:celebrate: 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quack_(horse)

I wrote at least half of that which proves I sometimes have too much time on my hands.  ;)

Blue Jeans

Quote from: curtis on December 12, 2013, 10:35:09 AM
I wrote at least half of that which proves I sometimes have too much time on my hands.  ;)

Just a few minutes ago, I read on page 29 of 12/7/13 B-H issue about the 1973 Hollywood Gold Cup that was listed as HP's Top 10 Races by Jon White.  Guess who?  Yep, Quack!   :)  ... sadly lost by a nose to Kennedy Road ... and Cougar coming in third five lengths back.  Would you happen to know why Shoemaker was "bounced off" Cougar for that race by the owner?  Lucky for Shoemaker ... he rode the winner, Kennedy Road.   The owner was booed by the fans .... and Shoemaker was cheered!  Thought you might know .... more of this story.
A horse doesn't care how much you know, until he knows how much you care. ~Pat Parelli

Horse sense, n.: Stable thinking. ~Author Unknown

Raven

#159
Shoemaker said that he didn't know why Mary F Jones said to Charlie Whittingham to go get Laffit Pincay  to ride the horse.

That in his own words.


Chuck Whittingham owned half interest inCougar II and she owned the other half .  He was so mad that he told her to to take the horse out of his barn then sold his share and he commented latter"Pretty expensive mad wasn't?"

Because the horse made over a million after that!
'
All of the above i read in the book:   Shoemaker...  America's greatest jockey.   By Shoemaker and Barney Nagler!
call no man happy till he dies. ~SOLON~

Blue Jeans

Quote from: Raven on December 12, 2013, 04:40:04 PM
Shoemaker said that he didn't know why Mary F Jones said to Charlie Whittingham to go get Laffit Pincay  to ride the horse.

That in his own words.


Chuck Whittingham owned half interest inCougar II and she owned the other half .  He was so mad that he told her to to take the horse out of his barn then sold his share and he commented latter"Pretty expensive mad wasn't?"

Because the horse made over a million after that!
'
All of the above i read in the book:   Shoemaker...  America's greatest jockey.   By Shoemaker and Barney Nagler!

Thank you for this info.  So, it was Pincay who rode Cougar that day!  You just answered another question I had concerning the jockey for that horse.  Shoemaker rode Cougar in the first Marlboro Cup in Sept. of that year .... barely lost to Riva Ridge for second place.   
A horse doesn't care how much you know, until he knows how much you care. ~Pat Parelli

Horse sense, n.: Stable thinking. ~Author Unknown

curtis

#161
Much of the two Shoemaker books are well...embellished to say the least.  While it was fairly common knowledge that Whittingham had a healthy share of Ack Ack, there was never any evidence that he owned any of Cougar.  Whittingham had no knowledge of Jones replacing Shoemaker with Pincay until he called Vince DeGregory, Pincay's agent, to book Pincay on Kennedy Road.  DeGregory told Whittingham that he already had a call for the Gold Cup, on Cougar.  Since Jones bought Cougar in the summer of 1970, Shoemaker rode him almost exclusively.  When a conflict arose in the 1971 Big 'Cap, Shoe stayed with Ack Ack and defeated Cougar with Pincay up.  Because of a suspension in the fall of 1972, Don Pierce subbed for Shoe winning the Carleton F. Burke at Santa Anita on Cougar.  Not long before the 1973 Big 'Cap, Shoemaker broke his hand and Pincay subbed for him twice on Cougar, winning the Big 'Cap and finishing third on a yielding turf course (Cougar hated anything soft) in the San Luis Rey Stakes.  Shoemaker then finished third twice on Cougar--San Juan Capistrano and Hollywood Turf Invitational--sandwiched around a big win in the Century Handicap.  It was in the Century that Cougar became the first foreign bred millionaire.  It was after the Hollywood Turf Invitational that the trouble started.

Cougar was incredibly popular with the media and fans.  He wouldn't allow use of a lead pony and would stop and go as he pleased on the way to the gate.  He often times would stop in front of the tote board, gaze at it then look at the crowd as if he was confirming that he should be favored.  He had a long flowing mane and tail that flew as wildly as his moods.  Cougar could not be forced into anything he had to be finessed into it and at this Shoemaker was the master.  When Cougar ran and won the Big 'Cap earlier that year, he had been prepared for the race on works alone as a device to keep weight off of him.  Whittingham's ploy worked as he was asked to carry 126.  Had Cougar won a prep race or two he would have carried at least 130.  Since he was fresh, Cougar was compliant for Pincay and they had a good trip except for a bumping incident late in the race of which Cougar was absolved of blame.   By 1971, Pincay had replaced Shoemaker as the leading rider on the circuit by a wide margin.  Jones loved Cougar and soon began to blame Shoemaker for what she deemed as sub par performances.  Since Cougar had won the Big 'Cap with Pincay--and in her opinion he was the superior jockey--Jones wanted Pincay to be Cougar's rider.  The trouble was that Cougar was very difficult to ride.  He would take him self back out of the gate and then want to be on the rail at all costs which only made for traffic problems.  You couldn't really ask or tell him to do anything but make him think it was his idea.  At this stage in his career, Pincay's biggest asset was his strength and power.  Soon after the horses broke from the gate in the Gold Cup, Pincay could see that the pace was going to be solid but not blazing so he niggled at Cougar to stay close--Cougar sulked and slowed down.  Pincay then asked Cougar to pick it up--Cougar became irritated and slowed down further.  Around the 6f pole, Pincay demonstratively told Cougar to go and Cougar got angry and all but stopped.  At this point Pincay gave up and just sat still.  At about the 5/16 pole, Cougar seemed to look up and decide he had work to do.  He took ahold of the bit and made an electrifying move to get third five lengths behind Kennedy Road--with Shoemaker up--and Quack who were a nose apart.  Shoemaker knew of these quirks in Cougar's personality, Pincay did not and I do not imagine that Shoemaker was forthcoming with any tips as to how to get Cougar to run.  Jones was booed in her box both before and after the race and she reportedly left after the race in tears.  Shoemaker was rousingly cheered as he brought Kennedy Road back to the winner's circle.  Whittingham trained Kennedy Road, Quack and Cougar so while not in love with the drama, he seemed to persevere.  It was Whittingham's intent to run Cougar back in the closing day 12f on turf Sunset Handicap and he told Jones in no uncertain terms that Shoemaker would be aloft.  Jones did not come to Hollywood Park to watch the Sunset Handicap, very uncharacteristic for her, since Cougar had almost become her identity.  The race was not televised or broadcast live on the radio.  Jones reportedly called the Hollywood Park publicity office after the race to ask if Cougar had won.  When told he had, she was asked if she had a comment, she answered "No" and hung up.  For the record when The Big Cat--as he was known--and Shoemaker made their move in the stretch in the Sunset, the horse they ran down late was, course record holder for the distance, Life Cycle with Pincay up.  Shoe then was up for both of Cougar's fall New York races.  Sorry for the length, but this really was my attempt at the Reader's Digest version.

Delamont

  :thumbsup:

You should write a book.  Or a blog at least.  Fascinating.
Somebody bet on the gray!

curtis

I keep threatening to write a book about Cougar.  So little is remembered about him that it may be of some interest.  He and John Henry were easily the most popular horses I ever saw race on the so. CA circuit.  Not meaning to diminish it, but the Zenyatta phenomenon was a different thing.  Cougar and John Henry had the respect and adoration of the race track degenerates.  The interest that Zenyatta garnered did bring back those days somewhat though.

Blue Jeans

#164
Love reading about Cougar, and you must treat us with more Cougar stories.  Fell in love with the horse after reading about him in the '73 Marlboro Cup (link posted earlier that I found at B-H). 

I still prefer thinking he was named for a So. American cougar capable of running 40 to 50 miles an hour.   ;D 

Thanks for all the great info.

ETA:  http://cs.bloodhorse.com/blogs/racinghub/archive/2013/09/23/marlboro-cup-of-champions.aspx

A horse doesn't care how much you know, until he knows how much you care. ~Pat Parelli

Horse sense, n.: Stable thinking. ~Author Unknown

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