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G1 Shadwell Turf Mile

Started by Man o Taz, September 29, 2014, 01:44:40 PM

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Man o Taz

The possible field:

Five Iron
3rd G2 Bernard Baruch, 8 furlongs

Grand Arch
5th G1 Woodbine Mile

Kaigun
2nd G1 Woodbine Mile

Optimizer
2nd G2 Bernard Baruch, 8 furlongs

Sayaad
4th G2 Bernard Baruch, 8 furlongs

Seek Again
G2 Four Star Dave, 8 furlongs

Silver Max
6th G2 Four Star Dave, 8 furlongs

Summer Front
2nd G1 Eddie Read, 9 furlongs

Two Notch Road
Punch Line Stakes, 5.5 furlongs

Wise Dan
G2 Bernard Baruch, 8 furlongs

Za Approval
Real Courage, 7 furlongs

I thought Goldencents was going to go here...
"And Allah took a handful of southerly wind, blew His breath upon it, and created the horse.... Thou shall fly without wings, and conquer without any sword. Oh, horse" - old Bedouin saying.

peeptoad

O'Neill & Co didn't like the way Goldencents worked on turf enough to enter him in this race. I think he might be going in the sprint stakes at SA this weekend, but don't quote me on that.


Senator L

Nothing wrong with betting place :chickendance: I don't know why all these horses
keep trying to beat wise Dan probably ruining their confidence.
If you like a horse you'll get a great price. Lots of pace may try Summer Front

curtis

Quote from: Senator L on September 30, 2014, 07:07:55 AM
Nothing wrong with betting place :chickendance: I don't know why all these horses
keep trying to beat wise Dan probably ruining their confidence.
If you like a horse you'll get a great price. Lots of pace may try Summer Front
To cash on Wise Dan in this race last year you needed to bet to place. ;)

peeptoad

Call me a fool, but I am going with Kaigun in here...

Senator L

If I end up betting I think I'll go Wise Dan, Sayaad. Kaigun takes Patrick Husbands
with him who is a great turf rider imo. Friends have said that he wants a BC win
before he retires so I wish him well  :chickendance:

peeptoad

Thank god I didn't actually bet today... now off to the pub to lose the money I didn't bet.

Raven

WOW!!! What a race by the champ. 
call no man happy till he dies. ~SOLON~

Senator L

7 years old and still amazing  :chickendance:

Senator L

Quote from: peeptoad on October 04, 2014, 02:56:41 PM
Thank god I didn't actually bet today... now off to the pub to lose the money I didn't bet.


You never lose at a good pub :celebrate:

Man o Taz

Quote from: Raven on October 04, 2014, 03:23:03 PM
WOW!!! What a race by the champ.

That's for certain. I do not know if he got the best ride. He it seemed after his stumble at the gate, he was a little bit rank going into the first turn and then got pinned on the rail. I was worried he might get stuck and be unable to get out, but he came home like the champ he is. On to Santa Anita.

His versatility is so impressive how he can win on soft and firm turf.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7tGsb5wFg9U
"And Allah took a handful of southerly wind, blew His breath upon it, and created the horse.... Thou shall fly without wings, and conquer without any sword. Oh, horse" - old Bedouin saying.

Man o Taz

Wise Dan
Grand Arch
Sayaad
Kaigun
Silver Max
Seek Again
Optimizer
Two Notch Road

http://www.courier-journal.com/story/sports/horses/2014/10/05/wise-dan-wins-shadwell-turf-mile-keeneland/16763383/
"And Allah took a handful of southerly wind, blew His breath upon it, and created the horse.... Thou shall fly without wings, and conquer without any sword. Oh, horse" - old Bedouin saying.

Senator L

I don't get why so many people don't like Wise Dan. Mike Watchmaker has him
listed as #2 in the turf category! lol It's like he isn't reading his own words :OMG:

1 – Main Sequence,
by Aldebaran
Earned this with three straight Gr. 1 wins
2 – Wise Dan,
by Wiseman's Ferry
Been 3 years since he was worse than 2nd

Man o Taz

Quote from: Senator L on October 06, 2014, 10:25:45 PM
I don't get why so many people don't like Wise Dan. Mike Watchmaker has him
listed as #2 in the turf category! lol It's like he isn't reading his own words :OMG:

1 – Main Sequence,
by Aldebaran
Earned this with three straight Gr. 1 wins
2 – Wise Dan,
by Wiseman's Ferry
Been 3 years since he was worse than 2nd

I think the reality is that while Americans rarely go over 10 furlongs (heck - truth be told they rarely go 10 furlongs), there is a prejudice against horses that win at shorter distances. They are not as impressive as the stayers. Wise Dan has been impressive.

Distances being considered equal, Main Sequence has two arguments in his favor. First, he has won three G1 races in a row. This is a fact. And Wise Dan has only won 3 out of 4 G1 races this year. In addition, I think if you rated the fields, Main Sequence's may have been slightly better than Wise Dan's. The wins have been at multiple distances at multiple tracks.

Dan's strengths for me are the fact that he is coming off a serious illness, has faced increasingly competitive fields, has had BSFs of 100 or above in his last two efforts. I also believe that Dan seems like he is moving forward with a head win first out after his return, and then a length and a half, while Main Sequence appeared to win in his first two G1s more impressively than his last effort. And he has won as multiple distances. 

I think the case can be made for each.

I also believe that some persons have a concern similar to that expressed here regarding Wise Dan winning HOTY for a third time and thus figuring into the ranks of horses like Forego. For me this is silly. I believe Wise Dan is certainly a Hall of Fame horse, but he is not in the top 10 of horses all-time. He is remarkable not only because of his talent, but also his durability. While persons of a particular era like to believe that their horses are among the best ever you need distance and time separation to really make that determination.
"And Allah took a handful of southerly wind, blew His breath upon it, and created the horse.... Thou shall fly without wings, and conquer without any sword. Oh, horse" - old Bedouin saying.

Senator L

I don't buy it. In all sports, the champ is the champ until someone
knocks them off their perch. You said "And Wise Dan has only won 3 out of 4 G1 races this year"

Not true, Dan is 4 for 4  :chickendance: I get the distance thing and why we don't see sprinters
named HOY. The category is turf - all distances. If someone else wants to be the champ they go and
beat him, he doesn't have to go and beat them. That's the way it is suppose to work. Just like boxing
you don't point him to death, you have to knock his ass silly. That is the way to win, not
this pencil whipping crap

:thanks:

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