Just plain sad.

Loved this horse. :pray:

Quote from: Man o Taz on November 15, 2013, 07:16:28 AM

Quote from: Kennedy on November 13, 2013, 10:47:56 AM

Quote from: Man o Taz on November 13, 2013, 08:14:03 AM
And in 2012 he participated in the Dubai World Cup (12), in 2011 he also participated in the Charles Town Classic (2), and the Lone Star Park Handicap (3), and in 2010 he was in two maiden races placing (2,1) at Gulfstream Park, the Florida Derby (7), Churchill Downs for the Cliff's Edge Derby Trial (5), the Lone Star Park Derby (1), and the Belmont Stakes (4). So to add to your point - he has traveled outside of California quite a bit.

Examining this resume, 40% of his races have been run outside the state of California.

But in the early part of his career he clearly wasn't the horse he is today. He has improved significantly over what he was as a 3yo. So it is difficult to compare his early races. One might actually say that he did not become a really good horse until he started running in Cal on a regular basis.

True.

When do you measure that he got good?

When he won his first stakes race?

The Lone Star Derby...G3...that would give him 7 out of 24 outside of CA or 29% of his races.

When he won his first G1 race?

That would be March 2011 - his second career race in California - so let's eliminate the seven races in before that...

23% of his races - 5 out of 21 occurred outside of CA. 1.66 a year...out of an average of 7 races per year.

That's better than a lot of California-based horses.

Quote from: FT-TBC-TRF on November 14, 2013, 06:14:11 AM
......against sub par competition.

What do you base that on? Two BC Classic races? So he does not run well at the end of the year at the age of 5 and 6. The notion that he always fades against top competition has been disproven. 

In 2011 he left California three times...he did not win but finished in the money in all of those races besting the following:

Acclamation
Awesome Gem
Flat Out
Gone Astray
Havre De Grace
Headache
Icebox
Inherit The Gold
Prayer for Relief
Rattlesnake Bridge
Rule
Ruler on Ice
So You Think
Stay Thirsty
Tackleberry
Tizway
To Honor and Serve
Uncle Mo

In 2012, he did what only one other American G1 winning horse did that year and went to the Dubai World Cup. True - he did not perform well - but he has never ducked competition.

In 2013 he bested the following horses in his travels:

Ron The Greek in the Santa Anita Handicap and the Charles Town Classic also defeating the previous year's winner Caixa Eletronica.

Remember in the SAH RTG was coming off his career high BSF so he was in good form and GOD dispatched him with ease.

And guess what - the runner up to Game On Dude in those races was among the inferior competition that Game On Dude had been accused of facing earlier that year in Clubhouse Ride who also bested RTG and CE.

Quote from: Kennedy on November 13, 2013, 10:47:56 AM

Quote from: Man o Taz on November 13, 2013, 08:14:03 AM
And in 2012 he participated in the Dubai World Cup (12), in 2011 he also participated in the Charles Town Classic (2), and the Lone Star Park Handicap (3), and in 2010 he was in two maiden races placing (2,1) at Gulfstream Park, the Florida Derby (7), Churchill Downs for the Cliff's Edge Derby Trial (5), the Lone Star Park Derby (1), and the Belmont Stakes (4). So to add to your point - he has traveled outside of California quite a bit.

Examining this resume, 40% of his races have been run outside the state of California.

But in the early part of his career he clearly wasn't the horse he is today. He has improved significantly over what he was as a 3yo. So it is difficult to compare his early races. One might actually say that he did not become a really good horse until he started running in Cal on a regular basis.

True.

When do you measure that he got good?

When he won his first stakes race?

The Lone Star Derby...G3...that would give him 7 out of 24 outside of CA or 29% of his races.

When he won his first G1 race?

That would be March 2011 - his second race career race in California - so let's eliminate the seven races in before that...

23% of his races - 5 out of 21 occurred outside of CA. 1.66 a year...out of an average of 7 races per year.

That's better than a lot of California-based horses.

Quote from: Dave in TJ Mex on November 08, 2013, 01:53:13 PM

Thanks for the correction as to the Charles Town Classic.

And although GOD ran a really good race in the 2011 BCC (although he did cough up a big lead in the stretch, he still ran really well, IMO), the connections immediately dumped Chantal Sutherland after that race.

Guess she wasn't the problem in the BCC!

Actually, it is my understanding that they did not switch jockeys on Game On Dude (from Chantal Sutherland to Rafael Bejarano) until after the 2012 Pacific Classic. Mr. Bejarano rode him in the first incarnation of the Awesome Again in 2012. Game On Dude fell victim to the peanut butter slop of Churchill Downs in the 2011 version of the BC Classic. Ms. Sutherland did nothing wrong in that race. In fact, she retains the best performance by GOD in a BC Classic.

Thus, she was not the problem in the BCC.

Quote from: Kennedy on November 08, 2013, 11:24:52 AM

Game on Dude didn't spend the entire season in California. He took on Ron the Greek in the Charles Town Classic. He also finished second in the 2011 BC Classic at Churchill.

And in 2012 he participated in the Dubai World Cup (12), in 2011 he also participated in the Charles Town Classic (2), and the Lone Star Park Handicap (3), and in 2010 he was in two maiden races placing (2,1) at Gulfstream Park, the Florida Derby (7), Churchill Downs for the Cliff's Edge Derby Trial (5), the Lone Star Park Derby (1), and the Belmont Stakes (4). So to add to your point - he has traveled outside of California quite a bit.

Examining this resume, 40% of his races have been run outside the state of California.

Quote from: Man o Taz on November 11, 2013, 06:39:02 AM
Agreed...

Was hoping Cross Traffic would enter the race but it does not seem like he is considering it any longer.

But now Verrazano is a possibility along with Alpha, Capo Bastone and Forty Tales.

So that might be a nice field with Groupie and Goldencents...4 multiple G1 winners and 5 G1 winners...

From an NYRA release...

Groupie Doll and her regular rider, Rajiv Maragh, will be competing for a $1 million gross purse in the Cigar Mile by virtue of a special purse incentive provided by the New York Racing Association, Inc. for Breeders' Cup winners. Also going for the enhanced $1 million purse will be Breeders' Cup Dirt Mile winner Goldencents, while Alpha, Verrazano and Capo Bastone would be competing for a secondary incentive that offers a gross purse of $750,000 to Grade 1 winners. Others looking at the Cigar Mile include Gentlemen's Bet, third in the Breeders' Cup Sprint, and stakes winner Forty Tales.

I guess it depends on how you rate the fields involving the wins. I would suggest that some wins are more important than others depending upon the competition. The most competitive three year old race this year was the Kentucky Derby and the Belmont Stakes since it had the Kentucky Derby and Preakness Stakes winners competing in the race. No other race could claim the number of G1 top finishing stakes winning or placing horses in it other than those two races.

Will Take Charge in the G2 Pennsylvania Derby has a win over:
G1 Travers runner up and G2 Dwyer stakes winner

Will Take Charge has a win in the G1 Travers over:

Kentucky Derby winner
Belmont Stakes winner
Wood Memorial/Haskell winner
Dwyer Stakes winner

Will Take Charge in the G2 Rebel has a win over:

G3 Lecomte winner

Orb has a win in the G1 Kentucky Derby over:

Arkansas Derby winner
Bluegrass Stakes winner
Wood Memorial winner
Santa Anita Derby winner
Florida Derby runner-up
Wood Memorial runner-up
Santa Anita Derby runner-up
Bluegrass Stakes runner up
Arkansas Derby runner-up
G2 UAE Derby winner

Orb has a win in the G1 Florida Derby over:
Multiple G1 winning two year old BC Champion Juvenile winner Shanghai Bobby
G3 Holy Bull winner

Orb has a victory in the G2 Fountain of Youth over:
G1 and multiple graded stakes winning horse

Palace Malice has a win in the G1 Belmont Stakes over:

G1 Kentucky Derby and Florida Derby winner
G1 Preakness Stakes and Lecomte Stakes winner
G1 Kentucky Derby runner up
G1 Preakness Stakes runner-up and Holy Bully winner
G1 Arkansas Derby winner
G1 Arkansas Derby runner-up
G2 Louisiana Derby winner and Kentucky Derby third place finisher
G2 Rebel Stakes winner

Palace Malice has a win in the G1 Jim Dandy over:

G2 Dwyer Stakes winner
G2 Rebel Stakes winner
G2 Peter Pan Stakes winner
G1 Preakness Stakes third place finisher

Now, who defeated - as in won a race - over tougher competition this year?

In this context, Palace Malice is quite deserving of being in the conversation for champion three year old.

And then, of course, there is Goldencents.

Goldencents has a win in the G1 Breeders Cup Dirt Mile over:
G1 2012 Travers Stakes winner and 2013 G3 Prairie Meadows Handicap winner
Multiple G1 winner of the 2013 Wood Memorial and Haskell Invitational
G1 2013 Woodward Stakes winner and 2012 Travers Stakes
G1 Triple Bend winner
G1 2012 Donn Handicap winner

Goldencents has a win in the G1 Santa Anita Derby over:
G2 Robert Lewis Stakes winner
G3 Southwest Stakes winner

Here is an informational article prompted by the accident which occurred to Verema in the Melbourne Cup. I think most of us know this information, but I thought it was well articulated.

http://www.smh.com.au/sport/horseracing/when-tragedy-upsets-the-science-of-horse-racing-20131108-2x72g.html

Quote from: Man o Taz on November 11, 2013, 06:39:02 AM
Agreed...

Was hoping Cross Traffic would enter the race but it does not seem like he is considering it any longer.

But now Verrazano is a possibility along with Alpha, Capo Bastone and Forty Tales.

So that might be a nice field with Groupie and Goldencents...4 multiple G1 winners and 5 G1 winners...

And Golden Ticket appears to be headed there as well...so that's 6 G1 winners.

Too bad Orb and Cross Traffic couldn't make it.

The e-mail, of course. (SMILE)

I'll be hanging on to her...the question is whether she'll hang on to me.

Quote from: Zenyatta on November 07, 2013, 05:51:29 PM

You need to hang on to that one. 

Oh, there is no doubt about that!

Agreed...

Was hoping Cross Traffic would enter the race but it does not seem like he is considering it any longer.

But now Verrazano is a possibility along with Alpha, Capo Bastone and Forty Tales.

So that might be a nice field with Groupie and Goldencents...4 multiple G1 winners and 5 G1 winners...

Its an interesting question regarding the Clark.

I would suggest that it depends on the field.

If Mucho Macho Man entered the Clark...and Will Take Charge and a couple of other top horses then I think that the race might have an impact on some voters with an impressive Game On Dude performance.

There is actually incentive for Mucho Macho Man to enter the race given he has only run 5 timers this year - and if he won the race he would make a much stronger case for champion older male and perhaps even HOTY. Then again, with two third place finishes his connections may be skeptical whether he can get it done over the Churchill surface but he has at least shown himself to be competitive over the track.

Quote from: BaroqueAgain1 on November 07, 2013, 05:07:53 PM
  Tin Man, I hope you will get a chance to see Ebby with your own eyes once she starts coming out to the track for exercise. Then, you can let us all know how she compares with Queen Z, size-wise. Last I read, the filly was 17+ hands.

Well, I saw Ebby at Saratoga this summer and also saw Zenyatta for the 2010 Breeders Cup at Churchill.

But one wold expect an Eblouissante at 4 is certainly going to be different than a Zenyatta at 6 and they were. Zenyatta had a much fuller, more muscular build to her when we saw her at Churchill. Eblouissante is sleeker and narrower. This gives her the appearance of being just as talk as Zenyatta but my understanding is that she is two fingers shorter than the Breeders Cup Champion. Just glad to know we will see more of her racing.

Look forward to possibly seeing her at Hollywood Park.

Look forward to seeing her at Aqueduct for the second year in a row..

The Cigar Mile was looking to have a bland field after losing Graydar and Orb. Now it is looking stronger. Hopefully there will be no more defections.