We do have two coasts with Super Saturday festivities...
Here is what we are looking at from the Breeders Cup host venue.
Remember last year, the G1 Awesome Again was a tune up for eventual BC Classic winner Mucho Macho Man. Its a shame he is not here to contest the race again this year. He will be missed.
But the Awesome Again is not the only "awesome" race (pun intended) on the card that day...
Three year old defending champion Beholder is featured in the Lady Secret/Zenyatta...I don't know what they are calling the race anymore.
Past Performances are available for all nominees below:
http://www.santaanita.com/stakes-schedule/
G1 Frontrunner Stakes, 8.5 Furlongs (I believe Bondholder won this race last year.)
American Pharoah
Calculator
Conquest Pantera
Daddy DT
Lord Nelson
Red Button
Reflected Star
Sky Preacher
Skyway
RACE 7 RODEO DRIVE S. (GRADE I) POST TIME - 3:30 PM
ENTRIES PLUS PPS & SELECTIONS
$1 Exacta / $1 Trifecta $2 Low Takeout Rolling Double/ $1 Rolling Pick Three (Races 7-8-9) $1 Superfecta (.10 min)
Santa Anita Park STAKES
Purse $300,000. For Fillies And Mares, Three Years Old And Upward. One And One Fourth Miles. (Turf)
PP Horse Virtual
Stable A/S Med Jockey Wgt Trainer
1 Cozze Up Lady (KY) 5/M L K J Desormeaux 119 J K Desormeaux
2 Famous Alice (KY) 3/F L D Van Dyke 116 T F Proctor
3 Moulin de Mougin (KY) 4/F L M E Smith 119 R E Mandella
4 Bee Brave (GB) 4/F L T Baze 119 S Callaghan
5 Scarlet Strike (KY) 4/F L J Talamo 119 J Hollendorfer
6 Rusty Slipper (KY) 4/F L A T Gryder 119 H G Motion
7 Emollient (KY) 4/F L R Napravnik 121 W I Mott
8 Parranda (FL) 5/M L E Trujillo 119 J Hollendorfer
9 Irish Mission (ON) 5/M L C S Nakatani 119 C Clement
10 Charlie Em (GB) 4/F L M Garcia 119 P Gallagher
11 Stormy Lucy (KY) 5/M L R Bejarano 119 E Moger, Jr.
12 Bunairgead (IRE) 4/F L V Espinoza 119 J M Cassidy
13 Miss Serendipity (ARG) 6/M L B Blanc 124 R L McAnally
14 Queen of The Sand (IRE) 4/F L A O Solis 119 P Gallagher
Owners: 1 - Martin Rcg Stb., LLC, Morgan Thbrds., Farfellow Farms, Et Al ; 2 - George Krikorian ; 3 - Ran Jan Racing, Inc. ; 4 - Eclipse Thbrds. Partners or Green Lantern Stb., LLC ; 5 - Carver or Hollendorfer or Smith ; 6 - Zanim R. Meahjohn ; 7 - Juddmonte Farms ; 8 - Campbell, Clark or Gatto, Et Al ; 9 - Robert S. Evans ; 10 - Eclipse Thoroughbred Partners ; 11 - Steve Moger ; 12 - DP Racing, LLC ; 13 - Matias Cavalieri ; 14 - Derrick Fisher
Breeders: 1 - Farfellow Farms Ltd.; 2 - Kenneth L. Ramsey & Sarah K. Ramsey; 3 - Ran Jan Racing, Inc.; 4 - PSB Holdings Ltd; 5 - Stonestreet Thoroughbred Holdings LLC; 6 - Woodford Thoroughbreds, LLC.; 7 - Juddmonte Farms, Inc.; 8 - Kinsman Farm; 9 - Sam-Son Farm; 10 - Highfield Farm LLP; 11 - Mercedes Stable, LLC; 12 - J. S. Bolger; 13 - Anselmo Emilio Cavalieri; 14 - R. Coffey
Equipment Changes: 2 - Famous Alice - Blinkers On;7 - Emollient - Blinkers On
RACE 9 - POST TIME - 4:30 PM UNZIP ME S.
ENTRIES PLUS PPS & SELECTIONS
$1 Exacta / $1 Trifecta /$2 Low Takeout Rolling Double $1 Rolling Pick Three (Races 9-10-11) $1 Superfecta (.10 min)
Santa Anita Park STAKES
Purse $75,000. (Plus $22,500 – CBOIF - California Bred Owner Fund). For Fillies, Three Years Old. FREE nominations close Friday, September 19, 2014. $1,500 supplementary nominations close at time of entry. All horses pay $300 to start with $75,000 Added. The added monies and all fees to be divided 60% to the winner, 20% to second, 12% to third, 6% to fourth and 2% to fifth. 122 Lbs. Non-winners of a sweepstakes of $25,000 allowed 2 Lbs.; non-winners of two races other than Maiden, Claiming or Starter, 4 Lbs.; $25,000 since July 4, 6 Lbs. (Maiden, Claiming and Starter races not considered for allowances.) Highweights preferred, followed by Graded Stake Winners, followed by Graded Stakes placed horses, followed by highest earners. Starters to be named through the entry box by the usual time of entries. About Six And One Half Furlongs. (Turf)
PP Horse Virtual
Stable A/S Med Jockey Wgt Trainer
1 Wonderfully (IRE) 3/F L D Van Dyke 122 T F Proctor
2 Cal Gal (CA) 3/F L T Baze 116 D F O'Neill
3 Alexis Tangier (KY) 3/F L V Espinoza 118 R E Mandella
4 On the Backstreets (PA) 3/F L R Bejarano 122 P Miller
5 Concave (ON) 3/F L M Gutierrez 122 D F O'Neill
6 Meinertzhageni (CA) 3/F L A Delgadillo 120 J Bonde
7 Kool Kat (KY) 3/F L M E Smith 118 J M Cassidy
8 Stars Above Me (GB) 3/F L E Trujillo 122 H G Motion
9 Gender Agenda (GB) 3/F L J Talamo 120 C Gaines
Owners: 1 - Hill 'n' Dale Equine Holdings, Inc. ; 2 - Cam Allard ; 3 - Ran Jan Racing, Inc. ; 4 - Brewer Rcg Stb. Lanzman Rcg Stb. Inc., Rockingham Rnc, Et Al ; 5 - Reddam Racing, LLC ; 6 - Carranza or McGovern, Metanovic, Et Al ; 7 - DP Racing, LLC ; 8 - Elite Racing Club, UK ; 9 - Brackpool or Ossop or Ritvo
Breeders: 1 - Massarra Syndicate; 2 - Liberty Road Stables; 3 - Ran Jan Racing, Inc.; 4 - Justice Farm & Greg Justice; 5 - Windways Farm Limited; 6 - Robert Harmon; 7 - Jody Guida & Anthony Guida; 8 - Elite Racing Club; 9 - Middle Park Stud Ltd
RACE 10 CHANDELIER S. (GRADE I) POST TIME - 5:00 PM
ENTRIES PLUS PPS & SELECTIONS
$1 Exacta / $1 Trifecta $2 Low Takeout Rolling Double/ $1 Superfecta (.10 min)
Santa Anita Park STAKES
Purse $300,000. For Fillies, Two Years Old. One And One Sixteenth Miles.
PP Horse Virtual
Stable A/S Med Jockey Wgt Trainer
1 Sunday Sonnet (KY) 2/F L J Talamo 122 K J Breen
2 Conquest Eclipse (KY) 2/F L C S Nakatani 122 M E Casse
3 Danette (KY) 2/F L K J Desormeaux 122 J K Desormeaux
4 Angela Renee (KY) 2/F L R Bejarano 122 T A Pletcher
5 Sharla Rae (KY) 2/F L D Van Dyke 122 D F O'Neill
6 Maybellene (KY) 2/F L R Napravnik 122 B Baffert
7 Morning Coffee (KY) 2/F L M Gutierrez 122 D F O'Neill
8 Manahatta (KY) 2/F L T Baze 122 J Hollendorfer
9 Cruisingtheharbor (KY) 2/F L E A Maldonado 122 P Miller
10 Dad's Princess (KY) 2/F L M E Smith 122 J M Cassidy
11 Majestic Presence (KY) 2/F L E Trujillo 122 J Hollendorfer
12 Lutine Belle (KY) 2/F L A O Solis 122 J Hollendorfer
Owners: 1 - George & Lori Hall ; 2 - Conquest Stables, LLC ; 3 - Don't Tell My Wife Stables ; 4 - Siena Farm, LLC ; 5 - W. C. Racing, Inc. ; 6 - Natalie J. Baffert ; 7 - Reddam Racing, LLC ; 8 - Gainesway Thoroughbreds, Ltd. or Peachtree Stable ; 9 - Altamira Racing Stable ; 10 - DP Racing, LLC ; 11 - Mark DeDominico, LLC & North American Thbrd. Rcng. Comp., Inc. ; 12 - KMN Racing, LLC
Breeders: 1 - PTS Ranch, LLC; 2 - Tapestry Stud LLC & Spendthrift Farm LLC; 3 - Alexandra Gross, Peter Gross & AlfonsoMazzetti; 4 - Siena Farms LLC; 5 - Mr. & Mrs. Richard S. Kaster &Frederick C. Wieting; 6 - Colts Neck Stables LLC; 7 - Sierra Farm; 8 - Dr. O. M. Patrick; 9 - Doug Branham; 10 - Robert Gentry Family Partnership, Ltd.; 11 - Judy B. Hicks; 12 - WinStar Farm, LLC & John R. Penn
G1 Zenyatta, 8.5 furlongs
Beholder
Iotapa
Tiz Midnight
Tiz The Key
Wittgenstein
Yahilwa
Is this another walkover? Can Iotapa really challenger Beholder?
G1 Awesome Again, 9 furlongs
Bird E House
Fed Biz
Footbridge
Imperative
Majestic Harbor
Mystery Train
Shared Belief
Sky Kingdom
Does not seem like much of a field for Shared Belief, but it will be interesting to see how he handles the dirt at Santa Anita in preparation for the Breeders Cup Classic. If he has any vulnerability it may be this. I would love to have seen his closing speed vs. Game On Dude's early speed when the Dude was at the top of his game.
I have an idea - with the Lady Secret - Zenyatta - why not call it the Lady Zenyatta...representing both horses...just a thought.
This card is on my agenda for this evening. The only race I've looked at so far is the Chandelier. The Pletcher horse should go off as a deserving favorite in there. He shipped her out for this one due to it being a wide open affair and there is no/low risk of s sloppy track.
I am going with Maybellene though. I'll take a chance at hopefully a decent price, she broke the maiden going 2 turns at DMR and has a pedigree that could do well on dirt. Bejarano did jump off onto the Pletch horse, which is understandable, but I'd rather take a shot with a better price in this one.
http://www.hrtv.com/videos/weekend-stakes-picks-92714/?VideoCategoryId=0
HRTV's Picks Show
Starts at about minute mark - 24
Race 5 - Zenyatta - 2:30
Michele Hu - Beholder
Other Guy - Tiz The Key
Race 6 - Frontrunner Stakes - 3:00
MH - American Pharoah
OG - American Pharoah
Race 7 - Rodeo Drive - 3:30
MH - Parranda
OG- Irish Mission
Race 8 - Awesome Again - 4:00
MH - Shared Belief/Majestic Harbor
OG - Shared Belief/Footbridge
Race 9 - Unzip Me - 4:30
MH -
OG -
Race 10 - Chandelier - 5:00
MH -
OG - Dad's Princess
Here's a nice article about Mr. Hollendorfer and his charge, Shared Belief.
Jerry Hollendorfer's Patience Pays With Shared Belief
http://www.latimes.com/sports/la-sp-shared-belief-dwyre-20140925-column.html
I didn't know Mr. Ward was an assistant of Mr. Frankel.
Here's an article on three year olds...
http://www.courier-journal.com/story/sports/horses/2014/09/25/shared-belief-fellow-year-olds-lead-breeders-cup-chase/16222227/
Quote from: Man o Taz on September 26, 2014, 10:37:03 AM
Here's a nice article about Mr. Hollendorfer and his charge, Shared Belief.
Jerry Hollendorfer's Patience Pays With Shared Belief
http://www.latimes.com/sports/la-sp-shared-belief-dwyre-20140925-column.html
I didn't know Mr. Ward was an assistant of Mr. Frankel.
Here's an article on three year olds...
http://www.courier-journal.com/story/sports/horses/2014/09/25/shared-belief-fellow-year-olds-lead-breeders-cup-chase/16222227/
Nice to see Dan The Man get a mention for once ...
Always good to read Dan. TTM you owe me an e-mail. 8)
First, congratulations to Shared Belief for his victory in the Awesome Again. He is really showing himself to be a special horse, though the field is very much the same field he bested in the Pacific Classic, his ability to not only best elders, but also do it on a dirt track that he had never run over after being taken wide is a credit to he and his connections. I loved this horse at 2, and I still love him at 3. I do hope some of the musings that I have read from the punditry regarding his stumbling coming back to the winner's circle are not a worry at all and he is fit as a fiddle for the Breeders Cup Classic where he'll face his stiffest test yet.
Second, I have watched Victor Espinosa carrying Shared Belief wide several times and I, frankly, see nothing wrong with it. If he had bumped the horse, or otherwise created a dangerous situation I could understand that, but I think its nothing more than gamesmanship unless it creates a dangerous situation. Just my opinion.
Quote from: Man o Taz on September 29, 2014, 07:00:59 AM
Second, I have watched Victor Espinosa carrying Shared Belief wide several times and I, frankly, see nothing wrong with it. If he had bumped the horse, or otherwise created a dangerous situation I could understand that, but I think its nothing more than gamesmanship unless it creates a dangerous situation. Just my opinion.
I completely disagree and Espinoza got 7 days suspension for his ride. Ask the owners of Sky Kingdom how they feel about it.... their horse was ridden solely to give another horse a tough trip and not to win (and that alone goes against the rule book anyhow). I think Victor deserves his suspension, but he was possibly acting on orders from the trainer (despite the fact that Baffert says not).
I have not read anything from the owners of Sky Kingdom. If you find anything I would like to read it.
I also did not have any problem with John Velazquez's ride on To Honor and Serve that pushed Mucho Macho Man wide in the 2013 Woodward Stakes.
Where is there evidence that there was a preconceived plan?
Where is there evidence that Mr. Espinosa's conduct was reckless or dangerous?
Did Mr. Espinsoa touch Shared Belief? Not that I saw.
Just because the steward's acted and handed out a fine demonstrates that they were right?
That would suggest that the steward's have never been wrong and can never be wrong.
They didn't take Game On Dude down in the 2011 Santa Anita Handicap where I thought he should come down.
They didn't take Main Sequence down for running into Twilight Eclipse in the Joe Hirsch.
And Mr. Hollendorfer did not make anything of it...
http://www.horseracingnation.com/news/Shared_Belief_Fine_After_Awesome_Again_Mugging_123
asked about the incident just after the race was official, Hollendorfer said, "We're all big boys . . . It's no big deal for me. Mike will have to settle with Victor. It's not the worst thing in the world to have a tough race and be double-fit for the Breeders' Cup. That race will be tougher so we need to be tougher, too."
He confirmed those thoughts Sunday morning. "We're big boys out here racing and as long as we won, we overcame a lot, so I'm grateful to get the win."
Were they right in all those instances? Not necessarily - and that does not mean they were right here.
Quote from: Man o Taz on September 29, 2014, 08:09:07 AM
I have not read anything from the owners of Sky Kingdom. If you find anything I would like to read it.
I also did not have any problem with John Velazquez's ride on To Honor and Serve that pushed Mucho Macho Man wide in the 2013 Woodward Stakes.
Where is there evidence that there was a preconceived plan?
Where is there evidence that Mr. Espinosa's conduct was reckless or dangerous?
Did Mr. Espinsoa touch Shared Belief? Not that I saw.
Just because the steward's acted and handed out a fine demonstrates that they were right?
That would suggest that the steward's have never been wrong and can never be wrong.
They didn't take Game On Dude down in the 2011 Santa Anita Handicap where I thought he should come down.
They didn't take Main Sequence down for running into Twilight Eclipse in the Joe Hirsch.
And Mr. Hollendorfer did not make anything of it...
http://www.horseracingnation.com/news/Shared_Belief_Fine_After_Awesome_Again_Mugging_123
asked about the incident just after the race was official, Hollendorfer said, "We're all big boys . . . It's no big deal for me. Mike will have to settle with Victor. It's not the worst thing in the world to have a tough race and be double-fit for the Breeders' Cup. That race will be tougher so we need to be tougher, too."
He confirmed those thoughts Sunday morning. "We're big boys out here racing and as long as we won, we overcame a lot, so I'm grateful to get the win."
Were they right in all those instances? Not necessarily - and that does not mean they were right here.
The ride was not reckless, but Espinoza did not ride his mount to win. It was definitely a premeditated/intentional move. Smith even said after the race he was trying to take back on Shared Belief to get inside and Victor wouldn't let him. Every time he let up on SB or accelerated with him, Victor did the exact same thing with Sky Kingdom. He clearly violated the rule book (which I don't have time to look for right now, but an excerpt was posted on DRF yesterday).
Quote from: peeptoad on September 29, 2014, 08:37:19 AM
The ride was not reckless, but Espinoza did not ride his mount to win. It was definitely a premeditated/intentional move. Smith even said after the race he was trying to take back on Shared Belief to get inside and Victor wouldn't let him. Every time he let up on SB or accelerated with him, Victor did the exact same thing with Sky Kingdom. He clearly violated the rule book (which I don't have time to look for right now, but an excerpt was posted on DRF yesterday).
OK - but what was the difference between what Victor did and what CJ's Awesome and Protonico did boxing in California Chrome. Javier Castellano would not let Chrome get by no matter what.
So, if you are taking a horse wide from the inside its a careless ride, but if you are boxing a horse in from the outside, its OK - gamesmanship what have you.
Its a judgment call.
If you get away with it - its sharp riding - and if you get caught its bad. Johnny V took Much Macho Man way wide with To Honor and Serve at the close of the Woodward Stakes and it was an incredible ride.
I just think it has to be called both ways and all ways or not at all. I have no doubt he violated the rules - but I think you can always find a violation in the rule book if you want to.
I do think the stewards may have been doing what I read somewhere and can't find - in sending a message that was not sent to outside riders coming to California for the BC that riders who interfere will be taken down.
I'm in total agreement with Man o taz and now I don't have to type a thing :chickendance:
Junior Alvarado almost got someone killed and all he did was get taken off his mount.
California Chrome gets boxed in and its race riding.
It should be the same rules on a 10k claimer and million dollar horse
all that said I would probably be pissed if that was my horse
Quote from: Senator L on September 29, 2014, 10:13:35 AM
I'm in total agreement with Man o taz and now I don't have to type a thing :chickendance:
Junior Alvarado almost got someone killed and all he did was get taken off his mount.
California Chrome gets boxed in and its race riding.
It should be the same rules on a 10k claimer and million dollar horse
all that said I would probably be pissed if that was my horse
Wow. That was reckless riding at its worst... he should definitely get a suspension imo.
Taz, one of the differences between what happened to Chrome at PARX and what happened to SB has to do with ground loss (I would have to watch the MMM Woodward race again to comment; I don't recall that race clearly enough). Chrome lost no ground and, in fact, was running on the optimal part of the PARX track (just not on the lead). Victor deliberately rode his horse to compromise another horse in the race. Yes, it's a judgement call, but I think the stewards made the correct call. If I owned Sky Kingdom and paid the entry fees and saw that I would be livid. The horse was a long shot, but he had absolutely no chance at all with that ride.
Alavarado should most definitely have been handed a suspension for his ride on Moreno. That was even more flagrant since Maragh's life was potentially at stake.
I think Mr. Alvarado has or will be suspended.
There is no doubt his riding (or lack thereof) contributed to a dangerous situation adn we say the result with Mr. Miragh's serious injury.
I get the lost ground theory, but how does it translate for a horse being boxed in where no ground is lost.
If that is the case, a horse on the inside will never get the benefit of the doubt because boxed in he/she will never lose any ground, even though the boxing in could be much worse than the carrying a horse wide.
I guess you want to discourage both types of behavior and since its all but impossible to discourage the boxing in, the only way to do it is to punish the outside drifters.
However, I do think the stewards were at a minimum serving two purposes in handing out their penalty - focusing just as much if not more on the BC and sending a message, as they were in penalizing Victor...if they really felt that Victor's actions were that bad he would have received more than a week's suspension.
Dude should have come down in that Santa Anita Handicap ... and those of us there booed them mercilessly when they let him stay up ...
It's my opinion that they did so either because he was a Baffert horse or because they wanted the history of Sutherland being the 1st woman to win it ... or both ...
It was a horrible call.
As far as last Saturday's Awesome Again?
I agree with Taz on this. As Hollendorfer said, it's time to put your big boy boots on.
This complaining is uncalled for.
Theses types of things, making a horse go wide intentionally or boxing them in intentionally happen from time to time when 1 horse is notably better than the rest of the field.
They tried it with Zenyatta several times (boxing in), with Nashoba's Key in her Breeders'Cup (boxing in), with Ultimate Eagle in The Santa Anita Handicap (suicidal pace by Gladding) and pretty much boxed California Chrome in during the Pennsylvania Derby too ...
It comes with the game sometimes when 1 horse towers above the rest of the field sometimes ... the jock of that horse should realize that and plan accordingly on avoiding being in that position ...
At least that's what I'd have done as a jockey for the Awesome Again ...
There's no way Smith didn't know that the other jockeys knew he was on a better horse than theirs ... he should have anticipated that and found a way around it ...
(The key point to my missive is being on the horse that is head and shoulders the best and you AND the other jockeys know it. Straight up they know they're on a lesser horse ... so "race riding" is the only chance they have to beat it ... or ... they could have just mailed in the victory for Shared Belief and just let him run freely and unimpeded.)
Quote from: peeptoad on September 29, 2014, 10:33:12 AM
Wow. That was reckless riding at its worst... he should definitely get a suspension imo.
Taz, one of the differences between what happened to Chrome at PARX and what happened to SB has to do with ground loss (I would have to watch the MMM Woodward race again to comment; I don't recall that race clearly enough). Chrome lost no ground and, in fact, was running on the optimal part of the PARX track (just not on the lead). Victor deliberately rode his horse to compromise another horse in the race. Yes, it's a judgement call, but I think the stewards made the correct call. If I owned Sky Kingdom and paid the entry fees and saw that I would be livid. The horse was a long shot, but he had absolutely no chance at all with that ride.
Alavarado should most definitely have been handed a suspension for his ride on Moreno. That was even more flagrant since Maragh's life was potentially at stake.
You know though, Chrome doesn't like to be inside of horses so irregardless of the fact that he was on the supposed golden rail, it was of no benefit to him.
I can't figure out if people are upset because Espinoza didn't give Sky Kingdom his best chance--fairly nebulous by definition since it can be argued he had no chance to begin with--or that he
fouled Shared Belief? Would there be such an uproar if he carried out Imperative or the Vienna horse? From what I could see the only people who should be upset are anyone whom would have benefitted from a win by Sky Kingdom--but I doubt that is why Victor got days. The Tin Man's example was good but an even better one is the 1982 Big 'Cap. In that race John Henry was going for a, then, unprecedented second Big 'Cap win. He made a great run down the lane only to be outnodded by Perrault, who drifted out towards John Henry near the wire. Perrault came down and his trainer, Charlie Whittingham said it best when he stated that had the horses been reversed and John Henry came out into Perrault, Ol' John never would have come down. I agreed with Whittingham 110%. I guess Charlie forgot about the 1975 Big 'Cap when his heavily favored Stardust Mel--a mammoth animal--clearly fouled a longshot named Out of the East, before barely outnodding him for the win. Stardust Mel stayed up. You gotta love this game.
Quote from: curtis on September 29, 2014, 05:32:22 PM
You know though, Chrome doesn't like to be inside of horses so irregardless of the fact that he was on the supposed golden rail, it was of no benefit to him.
That's the horse's problem... not a result of the ride by other jockeys in the race.
:tongue:
Quote from: curtis on September 29, 2014, 05:32:22 PM
I can't figure out if people are upset because Espinoza didn't give Sky Kingdom his best chance--fairly nebulous by definition since it can be argued he had no chance to begin with...
Tell that to Arcangues.
Look the bottom line is that the ruling by the stewards (or subsequent penalty) in reality could have gone either way- it was a judgement call on their part. Judgement is subjective. I agree with I think what Taz said that part of the reason they made the decision they did was because the race was on national TV featuring the horse that will likely be the Classic favorite.
We can (and are) debate the issue, and agree to disagree because of the subjective nature of certain things in this sport.
The bigger issue is is consistency of calls. The fact that a suspension has not yet been handed to Alvarado (that I know of) is a little concerning... I would expect an announcement soon (hopefully).
IMO a national governing body would greatly aid in this sort of thing (among many others) and improve consistency coast to coast.
Quote from: peeptoad on September 30, 2014, 04:29:00 AM
That's the horse's problem... not a result of the ride by other jockeys in the race.
:tongue:
I know it's Chrome's problem and don't you suppose the other jocks knew that?
Quote from: peeptoad on September 30, 2014, 04:29:00 AM
Tell that to Arcangues.
Look the bottom line is that the ruling by the stewards (or subsequent penalty) in reality could have gone either way- it was a judgement call on their part. Judgement is subjective. I agree with I think what Taz said that part of the reason they made the decision they did was because the race was on national TV featuring the horse that will likely be the Classic favorite.
We can (and are) debate the issue, and agree to disagree because of the subjective nature of certain things in this sport.
The bigger issue is is consistency of calls. The fact that a suspension has not yet been handed to Alvarado (that I know of) is a little concerning... I would expect an announcement soon (hopefully).
IMO a national governing body would greatly aid in this sort of thing (among many others) and improve consistency coast to coast.
Citing Arcangues is like having gone to Minute Maid Park last April and stating the Houston Astros had a shot at winning the World Series because of the '69 Mets. Arcangues and Sky Kingdom aren't apples to oranges they're bananas to kiwi. Arcangues was a talented horse who had a bad back, had trouble sustaining a training regimen and didn't do well on soft turf. He wasn't sent from Europe on a whim but he was overlooked because people knew so little about him. Arcangues had the talent to hit the board and even more if he got the right trip. No I didn't bet him, I bet two whole dollars on Best Pal that day based on pure sentiment. Sky Kingdom is what he is, a horse whose best trip is 11-14 furlongs on dirt or synthetic--and he peaked two years ago--he had no chance to do anything but maybe get a small piece of the purse if there was a huge pace meltdown. Betting him to do anything but get the bottom of the Superfecta was pure folly.
There is more consistency now than there was forty years ago so it's getting better albeit slowly. What Alvarado did could certainly be construed as dangerous and one would assume that the stewards are doing their due diligence before handing out a penalty if any. What Espinoza did was not dangerous, per se, and Smith compounded it by keeping Shared Belief on the engine. If Romie owned Sky Kingdom instead of Shared Belief or, as I stated earlier, he packed Imperative or Mystery Train wide instead, very few would care and Victor wouldn't be getting a vacation.
Quote from: curtis on September 30, 2014, 04:56:21 PM
Citing Arcangues is like having gone to Minute Maid Park last April and stating the Houston Astros had a shot at winning the World Series because of the '69 Mets. Arcangues and Sky Kingdom aren't apples to oranges they're bananas to kiwi. Arcangues was a talented horse who had a bad back, had trouble sustaining a training regimen and didn't do well on soft turf. He wasn't sent from Europe on a whim but he was overlooked because people knew so little about him. Arcangues had the talent to hit the board and even more if he got the right trip. No I didn't bet him, I bet two whole dollars on Best Pal that day based on pure sentiment. Sky Kingdom is what he is, a horse whose best trip is 11-14 furlongs on dirt or synthetic--and he peaked two years ago--he had no chance to do anything but maybe get a small piece of the purse if there was a huge pace meltdown. Betting him to do anything but get the bottom of the Superfecta was pure folly.
The point is longshots can (and do) win. So, in that sense, Sky Kingdom and Arcangues are comparable.
Quote from: peeptoad on October 01, 2014, 04:02:33 AM
The point is longshots can (and do) win. So, in that sense, Sky Kingdom and Arcangues are comparable.
I know what your point is, it was a bad example. I assume you really believe it though so I would surmise you put something on anything 20-1 or more because a longshot can win. There's a certain amount of mystery to the sport but not that much.
Obviously I'm doing a terrible job of getting my point across in relation to the ride on Sky Kingdom.
Nevermind.
Quote from: peeptoad on September 30, 2014, 04:29:00 AM
That's the horse's problem... not a result of the ride by other jockeys in the race.
:tongue:
Tell that to Arcangues.
Look the bottom line is that the ruling by the stewards (or subsequent penalty) in reality could have gone either way- it was a judgement call on their part. Judgement is subjective. I agree with I think what Taz said that part of the reason they made the decision they did was because the race was on national TV featuring the horse that will likely be the Classic favorite.
We can (and are) debate the issue, and agree to disagree because of the subjective nature of certain things in this sport.
The bigger issue is is consistency of calls. The fact that a suspension has not yet been handed to Alvarado (that I know of) is a little concerning... I would expect an announcement soon (hopefully).
IMO a national governing body would greatly aid in this sort of thing (among many others) and improve consistency coast to coast.
ITA