Yes!
And Commanding Curve, Danza, Wicked Strong and Samraat.
Twas a foregone conclusion to those who weren't trying to deny what was before them ...
When people try SOOOOOO hard to dredge up any conceivable angle or question they can create about a particular horse ... you know that is the one ...
Focus should have been on loading up BEHIND him in trifectas or superfectas ...
I singled him on my trifecta and loaded up 6 horses behind him in 2nd and 3rd for a trifecta ... Unfortunately though ... I didn't have Commanding Curve ...
This was the only race that concerned me at all(as long as he stays healthy) for Cali Chrome ... solely because traffic issues were a concern because of the huge field. Once the race started though, Victor placed him perfectly ... So I knew he had it from about 3 furlongs in.
Preakness should be a breeze ... as will the Belmont ... CC doesn't have distance limitations(although some try to convince themselves he does) ... He's been geared down hard his last 5 races ... Distance will be no issue.
As long as he stays healthy, I believe the hard part is done and the Triple Crown will be his.
Only horse that I view as a threat at all is Social Inclusion ... If he dispatches him, he's home free.
I have to give peeptoad props for giving me Commanding Curve. Thanks peeptoad. Without your talking him up so much I would never paid as close attention to him.
peeptoad got the trifecta.
I got 4 of the top 5...I just did not believe Danza was going to show...and he did...I'm a believer now.
Here is the order of finish:
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2050491-kentucky-derby-2014-results-winner-payouts-and-order-of-finish
Here is a look at the results from the 140th annual Run for the Roses:
2014 Kentucky Derby Results
Pos. Post Horse Jockey Trainer Lengths
1 5 California Chrome Victor Espinoza Art Sherman -
2 17 Commanding Curve Shaun Bridgmohan Dallas Stewart 1 3/4
3 4 Danza Joe Bravo Todd Pletcher 3
4 20 Wicked Strong Rajiv Maragh Jimmy Jerkens 5 3/4
5 6 Samraat Jose Ortiz Rick Violette Jr. 5 3/4
6 12 Dance With Fate Corey Nakatani Peter Eurton 6 1/4
7 19 Ride On Curlin Calvin Borel Billy Gowan 6 3/4
8 14 Medal Count Robby Albarado Dale Romans 7 1/2
9 13 Chitu Martin Garcia Bob Baffert 8
10 7 We Miss Artie Javier Castellano Todd Pletcher 8 1/4
11 8 General A Rod Joel Rosario Mike Maker 8 1/4
12 16 Intense Holiday John Velazquez Todd Pletcher 9
13 18 Candy Boy Gary Stevens John Sadler 11 3/4
14 3 Uncle Sigh Irad Ortiz Jr. Gary Contessa 15
15 15 Tapiture Ricardo Santana Jr. Steve Asmussen 16 1/4
16 2 Harry's Holiday Corey Lanerie Mike Maker 22 1/2
17 9 Vinceremos Joe Rococo Jr. Todd Pletcher 28
18 10 Wildcat Red Luis Saez Jose Garoffalo 28 1/4
19 1 Vicar's In Trouble Rosie Napravnik Mike Maker 38 1/4
11 Hoppertunity Mike Smith Bob Baffert SCR
Source: NBC broadcast
Below is an overview of the payouts from the top three:
2014 Kentucky Derby Payouts
Horse Win Place Show
California Chrome $7.00 $5.60 $4.20
Commanding Curve — $31.80 $15.40
Danza — — $6.00
Source: NBC broadcast
*$2 Exacta (5-17) paid $340.00; $1 Trifecta (5-17-4) paid $1,712.30; $1 Superfecta (5-17-4-20) paid $7,691.90.
Quote from: The Tin Man on May 03, 2014, 07:56:58 PM
Twas a foregone conclusion to those who weren't trying to deny what was before them ...
When people try SOOOOOO hard to dredge up any conceivable angle or question they can create about a particular horse ... you know that is the one ...
Focus should have been on loading up BEHIND him in trifectas or superfectas ...
I singled him on my trifecta and loaded up 6 horses behind him in 2nd and 3rd for a trifecta ... Unfortunately though ... I didn't have Commanding Curve ...
This was the only race that concerned me at all(as long as he stays healthy) for Cali Chrome ... solely because traffic issues were a concern because of the huge field. Once the race started though, Victor placed him perfectly ... So I knew he had it from about 3 furlongs in.
Preakness should be a breeze ... as will the Belmont ... CC doesn't have distance limitations(although some try to convince themselves he does) ... He's been geared down hard his last 5 races ... Distance will be no issue.
As long as he stays healthy, I believe the hard part is done and the Triple Crown will be his.
Only horse that I view as a threat at all is Social Inclusion ... If he dispatches him, he's home free.
I get that, and I also thought CC was the likely winner, but in such a big field anything can happen. I watched the race chewing my knuckles all the way!
That and Wise Dan's stretch battle really stood out on Derby Day.
Did anyone else think that this was not one of Johnny's better rides on Wise Dan?
Quote from: Man o Taz on May 05, 2014, 06:56:19 AM
Did anyone else think that this was not one of Johnny's better rides on Wise Dan?
I don't know if it was that, or Wise Dan was just real keen to get on with it. He tried to reserve a bit, and he fought him hard. That being said- If Wise Dan had lost that race, I'm sure quite a few people would have been all over Johnny V like white on rice for a bad ride.
Quote from: Delamont on May 05, 2014, 06:29:08 AM
I get that, and I also thought CC was the likely winner, but in such a big field anything can happen. I watched the race chewing my knuckles all the way!
That and Wise Dan's stretch battle really stood out on Derby Day.
This^ . The Derby is notorious for the best horse getting in trouble on that one day. The Grey Ghost of Sagamore only lost one race- and it stung the most for his fans.
Props to Peeptoad was "dying" for Commanding Curve
to get into the derby. I hope you cashed large :celebrate:
Quote from: Senator L on May 05, 2014, 02:21:17 PM
Props to Peeptoad was "dying" for Commanding Curve
to get into the derby. I hope you cashed large :celebrate:
:thumbsup:
I would love to know what Churchill Downs is doing with their track that the horses in works were coming back with their eyes almost closed after dealing with the Churchill Downs surface.
Between the quirky surface, the idiotic focus on celebrities, and the fact that Churchill cares little for horsemen (see Mr. Porter), or history (see Mr. Turcotte) with the accommodations it is willing to provide its a wonder they are still in business.
And NBC buys into all the supposed pageantry as well with some of its silly coverage.
Add to that the fact that NBC has some of the most inept camera work cutting off most, if not all of the races including the Kentucky Derby before all horses have crossed the finish line.
Well, guess what NBC - folks may decide they'd rather watch the races online at Kentucky Derby.com rather than tuning in if you keep up this inane camera shots. Like they can't wait five more seconds for the rest of the field to cross the finish line.
Quote from: Man o Taz on May 06, 2014, 06:39:32 AM
I would love to know what Churchill Downs is doing with their track that the horses in works were coming back with their eyes almost closed after dealing with the Churchill Downs surface.
Between the quirky surface, the idiotic focus on celebrities, and the fact that Churchill cares little for horsemen (see Mr. Porter), or history (see Mr. Turcotte) with the accommodations it is willing to provide its a wonder they are still in business.
And NBC buys into all the supposed pageantry as well with some of its silly coverage.
Add to that the fact that NBC has some of the most inept camera work cutting off most, if not all of the races including the Kentucky Derby before all horses have crossed the finish line.
Well, guess what NBC - folks may decide they'd rather watch the races online at Kentucky Derby.com rather than tuning in if you keep up this inane camera shots. Like they can't wait five more seconds for the rest of the field to cross the finish line.
If I could have watched online, I would have. NBC's coverage made me cringe.
Quote from: The Tin Man on May 03, 2014, 07:56:58 PM
Twas a foregone conclusion to those who weren't trying to deny what was before them ...
When people try SOOOOOO hard to dredge up any conceivable angle or question they can create about a particular horse ... you know that is the one ...
Focus should have been on loading up BEHIND him in trifectas or superfectas ...
I singled him on my trifecta and loaded up 6 horses behind him in 2nd and 3rd for a trifecta ... Unfortunately though ... I didn't have Commanding Curve ...
This was the only race that concerned me at all(as long as he stays healthy) for Cali Chrome ... solely because traffic issues were a concern because of the huge field. Once the race started though, Victor placed him perfectly ... So I knew he had it from about 3 furlongs in.
Preakness should be a breeze ... as will the Belmont ... CC doesn't have distance limitations(although some try to convince themselves he does) ... He's been geared down hard his last 5 races ... Distance will be no issue.
As long as he stays healthy, I believe the hard part is done and the Triple Crown will be his.
Only horse that I view as a threat at all is Social Inclusion ... If he dispatches him, he's home free.
On that note, today SI was loaded on a van headed to Pimlico.Social Inclusion will van to Pimlico; No Preakness decision yet for Ring Weekendhttp://www.brisnet.com/cgi-bin/editorial/article.cgi?id=44281 (http://www.brisnet.com/cgi-bin/editorial/article.cgi?id=44281)(http://i914.photobucket.com/albums/ac349/islandgirl452009/socialinclusion3-12laurenking_zpsc7116f9c.jpg)Social Inclusion brings plenty of speed to the Preakness(Lauren King/Adam Coglianese Photography)Social Inclusion has recovered sufficiently from the bruise in his right front foot that had kept him out of a Gulfstream Park stakes last Saturday to board a Pimlico-bound van Wednesday morning."We're leaving tomorrow morning around 10 (EDT) and get there early Thursday morning," Rontos Racing Stable Corp.'s Ron Sanchez said. "He'll jog tomorrow before he leaves."After making a belated career debut on February 22, Social Inclusion won his first two races by a combined 17 1/2 lengths at Gulfstream Park before finishing third in the TwinSpires.com Wood Memorial at Aqueduct on April 5. The Manny Azpurua-trained colt lacked the necessary point total to make the Kentucky Derby field.From the first crop of Pioneerof the Nile, Social Inclusion will enter the middle leg of the Triple Crown off a 42-day freshening . . .
Quote from: Delamont on May 06, 2014, 09:27:45 AM
If I could have watched online, I would have. NBC's coverage made me cringe.
My wife was so frustrated that she had her I-pad on throughout and watched every race over on KentuckyDerby.com...
Quote from: Islandgirl45 on May 07, 2014, 12:42:01 PM
On that note, today SI was loaded on a van headed to Pimlico.
Social Inclusion will van to Pimlico;
No Preakness decision yet for Ring Weekend
http://www.brisnet.com/cgi-bin/editorial/article.cgi?id=44281 (http://www.brisnet.com/cgi-bin/editorial/article.cgi?id=44281)
(http://i914.photobucket.com/albums/ac349/islandgirl452009/socialinclusion3-12laurenking_zpsc7116f9c.jpg)
Social Inclusion brings plenty of speed to the Preakness
(Lauren King/Adam Coglianese Photography)
Social Inclusion has recovered sufficiently from the bruise in his right front foot that had kept him out of a Gulfstream Park stakes last Saturday to board a Pimlico-bound van Wednesday morning.
"We're leaving tomorrow morning around 10 (EDT) and get there early Thursday morning," Rontos Racing Stable Corp.'s Ron Sanchez said. "He'll jog tomorrow before he leaves."
After making a belated career debut on February 22, Social Inclusion won his first two races by a combined 17 1/2 lengths at Gulfstream Park before finishing third in the TwinSpires.com Wood Memorial at Aqueduct on April 5. The Manny Azpurua-trained colt lacked the necessary point total to make the Kentucky Derby field.
From the first crop of Pioneerof the Nile, Social Inclusion will enter the middle leg of the Triple Crown off a 42-day freshening . . .
Pioneer is doing well...with Social Inclusion, Cairo Prince, and Vinceremos...
Quote from: Delamont on May 06, 2014, 09:27:45 AM
If I could have watched online, I would have. NBC's coverage made me cringe.
I watched the coverage from 12-4 on NBCSC? Had Laffit Pincay III, Randy Moss and Jerry Bailey. That was pretty good- but the regular network coverage was awful. I watched the Woodford Reserve- switched over to watch the racing at Talladega until around 6pm- just in time for "My Old Kentucky Home".
Quote from: serenassong on May 08, 2014, 06:44:18 AM
I watched the coverage from 12-4 on NBCSC? Had Laffit Pincay III, Randy Moss and Jerry Bailey. That was pretty good- but the regular network coverage was awful. I watched the Woodford Reserve- switched over to watch the racing at Talladega until around 6pm- just in time for "My Old Kentucky Home".
I like the NBCSC personnel. Did not know about KD-dot-com at the time...I kept switching between NBC and TVG until the saddling.
Quote from: Delamont on May 08, 2014, 07:47:33 AM
I like the NBCSC personnel. Did not know about KD-dot-com at the time...I kept switching between NBC and TVG until the saddling.
We were doing that too. And then afterwards we caught the race again on TVG but also were looking online.
Quote from: Man o Taz on May 09, 2014, 08:50:49 AM
We were doing that too. And then afterwards we caught the race again on TVG but also were looking online.
Is there some similar viewing prospect for the Preakness?
Quote from: Delamont on May 09, 2014, 09:30:24 AM
Is there some similar viewing prospect for the Preakness?
I would think that you can watch the undercard on NBCSN or the like. I know that Pimlico does have a live feed available- but not sure it that will be the case for Preakness day. Once again- I will probably only be watching the post parade and actual race on the main channel.
As a interesting side note to the main NBC coverage(Derby)- I did think that Kenny Mayne(sic?) reporting from the cheap seats (infield) is always entertaining. Did catch a bit of that, although it was real interesting when it was raining and muddy- he was hanging out with the mud babies. :lmao:
Quote from: Delamont on May 09, 2014, 09:30:24 AM
Is there some similar viewing prospect for the Preakness?
You can check Preakness.com and maybe they will be posting links to the races live or after they happen lilke KentuckyDerby.com did.
We'll be at the race, so will not have that luxury available to us unless my wife brings her I-pad.
Quote from: Man o Taz on May 12, 2014, 07:26:40 AM
You can check Preakness.com and maybe they will be posting links to the races live or after they happen lilke KentuckyDerby.com did.
We'll be at the race, so will not have that luxury available to us unless my wife brings her I-pad.
Ooo...luckyyyyy!
Yes - with my point and shoot camera because of the idiotic security requirements that they have banning all cameras with detachable lenses.
I stand corrected - they are allowing detachable lenses...
:happy:
I thought it was a good race, but what do I know?
I did as well, but my assessment might be suspect as well. (SMILE)
Did you get pics? :thumbsup:
It is what I do. (SMILE)
I should have known!
Here's a pic I thought I would share ...
It's of Junior(aka California Chrome) in the paddock before his debut race back on April 26th of last year at beloved Hollywood Park ...
Alberto Delgado aboard ... You know he's really regretting not having the mount any more! Who(besides Steven) knew before this race that we were looking at the probable 2014 Triple Crown winner ... :chickendance:
Here's praying he stays healthy and has a smooth trip!
(Click on the pic to make it bigger)
Niiiice! Thanks.
Thanks TTM.
http://www.courier-journal.com/story/sports/horses/triple/2014/05/20/things-might-know-california-chrome/2278110/
10 Things You Might Not Know About California Chrome and his connections...
1. Chrome was almost called "Seabisquik"
2. This whole thing began as a tax write-off
3. California Chrome has two sisters
4. Chrome's dad was supposed to be Redattore
5. Fifth time was a charm for Steve Coburn
6. Chrome might have guardian angels
7. Coburn met his "family" after breaking his back
8. Chrome got a new jockey after two bad runs
9. Carolyn Coburn was the family horse-racing expert
10. Steve Coburn refuses to buy a new truck
:thumbsup:
Pretty cool!
Excellent article by Gary West...
Monday, May 26, 2014
Numbers in Chrome's favor
By Gary West
Special to ESPN.com
http://espn.go.com/espn/print?id=10984591&type=story
The 11 Triple Crown winners emerged from foal crops that averaged 10,922. Increasing steadily, the foal numbers peaked in 1986, with 51,296, and from that large group emerged two great horses, Sunday Silence and Easy Goer. They were both good enough to sweep a Triple Crown, but neither was so good that he could beat the other with anything less than his best effort. Silver Charm, from a crop of 35,341, wasn't so superior that he could make a mistake and win; Smarty Jones, from a crop of 37,901, wasn't so superior that he could withstand several challenges and win.
And then there's the immense popularity of the series. The Triple Crown has become horse racing's only outpost in the popular culture, and that's especially true of the Derby. Casual observers know it. Everybody aims for it, dreams about it. And so again the numbers overwhelm. The Triple Crown champions won Derbies that averaged 13 starters (actually 13.45). Since 1978, the Derby has averaged 17 starters (17.44).
But the numbers, or at least the foal numbers, are trending in a direction that's favorable for another Triple Crown winner. The North American foal crop in 2011 was 25,500 (estimated by The Jockey Club), the smallest since 1975, or since Affirmed was born. The group's large enough to produce a truly superior horse, yet not so large that it's likely to produce two who are great or even several who are outstanding. And the numbers continue to decline, with estimates for 23,500 registered foals of 2012 and 23,000 of 2013. In other words, even though the Triple Crown's popularity ensures large fields for future races, the foal numbers argue for the increasing possibility of a standout.
Could California Chrome be such a standout? In five consecutive stakes victories this year, he has looked very much like it.
Solid Breeding Season Spurs Optimism in California
http://www.drf.com/news/solid-breeding-season-spurs-optimism-california
Just read a DRF article saying that Junior's long term goal for the year is the Breeders' Cup Classic ...
That is incorrect. He'll be entered in 3 BC races ... The ONLY way he will run in the Classic is if Tonalist or Shared Belief does ...
Otherwise, look for him in a different BC race ... that either Tonalist or Shared Belief or BOTH are in.
Bank on it.
They ARE correct about the desire to be a prep in a race to be written for him at Los Alamitos though. Steve and company are very loyal to Los Al and would love to prep there for the track.
Quote from: The Tin Man on July 05, 2014, 11:20:34 PM
Just read a DRF article saying that Junior's long term goal for the year is the Breeders' Cup Classic ...
That is incorrect. He'll be entered in 3 BC races ... The ONLY way he will run in the Classic is if Tonalist or Shared Belief does ...
Otherwise, look for him in a different BC race ... that either Tonalist or Shared Belief or BOTH are in.
Bank on it.
They ARE correct about the desire to be a prep in a race to be written for him at Los Alamitos though. Steve and company are very loyal to Los Al and would love to prep there for the track.
What race would Shared Belief and Tonalist target if not the Classic? I don't doubt the gossip that you're passing on but it sounds suspiciously like owner/trainer speak.
Quote from: curtis on July 06, 2014, 09:17:55 PM
What race would Shared Belief and Tonalist target if not the Classic? I don't doubt the gossip that you're passing on but it sounds suspiciously like owner/trainer speak.
The "gossip" is directly from the owner/trainer ... although I'm not sure why info directly from the owner/trainer would be considered "gossip" ... seems like a pretty good source to me.
Also ... for those speculating that there will be more than 1 prep race before the BC ... not gonna happen unless they do a total 180 ... definitely not in the plans as of right now.
Shared Belief wiil be heading for the Pacific Classic and the BC classic, I would
think with a million dollar bonus. I think jr will get a race that is a 1 1/8
or less for his comeback imo
Should be some great end of summer racing :chickendance:
I have to defer and trust in Shared Belief's connections.
Its a very big ask IMHO.
The Pacific Classic will be the Kentucky Derby on steroids for Shared Belief.
A horse usually gets 2-3 preps for a top 10 furlong race against other three year olds.
To have yet to face the best horses in your generation, and step right up into open company against elders could be a very tough spot.
However, I think I understand the thinking. It is sort of like Blame's entry in the Jockey Club Gold Cup - it was a true prep for the BC Classic. The connections knew he might not win the race, but it would get him ready to win the BC Classic. I think Mr. Hollendorfer is looking at the race this way too. He might not win, but he will be tested and ready for the BC Classic.
And then again, who is expected for the Pacific Classic? Game On Dude while incredible in the Santa Anita Handicap, does not appear to have recovered his form from that race. Majestic Harbor? Who knows what he'll do having finished 3rd on both turf and synthetic in his youth. Imperative is no monster either. Perhaps this is the year the older horses can be taken by the a three year old - even a lightly raced one. I would be worried about a European horse entering the race with Acclamation's pedigree. I just saw Side Glance run in the UN and he seems to me to be an older horse that would be tough to reckon with in the Pacific Classic.
Its just a question of what you feel is a bigger challenge I guess - facing elders at 10 furlongs for the first time or travelling cross country. Untappable is the only horse entering the Haskell. He could walk away with a $1 million win there and still run in the Pacific Classic for the bonus...but it seems his connections want to keep him lightly raced to make certain his feet do not bother him. Zenyatta though was rumored to hate the Del Mar polytrack surface so I hope going 10 furlongs there does not bother Shared Belief.
I also wonder if Jungle Racing is ready to sell him after this year and that is why they are taking such an aggressive approach with him.
Jr., on the other hand, has proven his mettle against the best of his generation this year all ready so I am not worried about him. He'll be fine no matter his prep.
Quote from: The Tin Man on July 06, 2014, 10:30:00 PM
The "gossip" is directly from the owner/trainer ... although I'm not sure why info directly from the owner/trainer would be considered "gossip" ... seems like a pretty good source to me.
Also ... for those speculating that there will be more than 1 prep race before the BC ... not gonna happen unless they do a total 180 ... definitely not in the plans as of right now.
Did they elaborate as to which three races? Only two make much sense--The Classic and the Dirt Mile, I would assume the other would be the Mile given Lucky Pulpit's affection for turf. The reason I'm referring to it as gossip is because, I don't believe these people are really telling you anything credible. I'm not doubting that you're reporting what they are telling you, just its validity.
For instance, a few weeks ago you reported that the connections didn't care about awards only what was best for the horse. Now they are going to run in one prep and then a Breeder's Cup race and in that race they are going to chase Tonalist and or Shared Belief? What is the point unless you are after an Eclipse award? Here is another scenario. Say Shared Belief comes up with a little problem or dislikes the new and, I assume, improved Santa Anita dirt as much as the old stuff. I'm no huge fan of Team Dorf but I doubt he's going to throw a three-year-old gelding to the wolves--especially one with Shared Belief's future earning potential. So he finds another spot for his horse and saves him for another Breeder's Cup. Tonalist may not be at home on the type of glib surface for which Santa Anita is known and the connections decide that they might want to try the Breeder's Cup Turf--it's been done before look up Prized in 1989. Clement, like Drysdale with Prized, knows how to win a big turf race. So evidently California Chrome is going to run a 12f turf race off of a presumed 1 mile dirt prep? If you want to do what is best for the horse run him in a prep at the Los Al fall meeting and then go the Malibu, Strub route.
My opinion is that the only Breeder's Cup race that makes sense to target, if you're hell-bent on going that route, is the Classic. Winning it will clinch Horse of the Year and your stiffest competition will more than likely come from Will Take Charge who is always a slave to race shape due to his running style. I suppose Mucho Macho Man could rejuvenate once again but I wouldn't count on it and then there is the aforementioned Tonalist whose running style at Santa Anita will probably mimic Will Take Charge. Palace Malice, I think could be suspect going 10f in a race as hot as the BC Classic will be from gate to wire. Shared Belief in my opinion, is the wild card. I think a horse has to learn to run 10f so such a prep like the Pacific Classic would be good for him as the race looks like it come up a little light this year.
At any rate Tin Man, I don't mean to give you a hard time and I always love your enthusiasm. I have been meaning to post some current pictures of Border Run. He's doing so well he might make a comeback of his own in the show ring, at age 26, if my daughter's quarter horse can't get over his little problem in time for the county fair. No matter what the horse is doing they'll tell you what's best, you just have to listen.
Quote from: Man o Taz on July 07, 2014, 06:41:23 AM
I have to defer and trust in Shared Belief's connections.
Its a very big ask IMHO.
The Pacific Classic will be the Kentucky Derby on steroids for Shared Belief.
A horse usually gets 2-3 preps for a top 10 furlong race against other three year olds.
To have yet to face the best horses in your generation, and step right up into open company against elders could be a very tough spot.
However, I think I understand the thinking. It is sort of like Blame's entry in the Jockey Club Gold Cup - it was a true prep for the BC Classic. The connections knew he might not win the race, but it would get him ready to win the BC Classic. I think Mr. Hollendorfer is looking at the race this way too. He might not win, but he will be tested and ready for the BC Classic.
And then again, who is expected for the Pacific Classic? Game On Dude while incredible in the Santa Anita Handicap, does not appear to have recovered his form from that race. Majestic Harbor? Who knows what he'll do having finished 3rd on both turf and synthetic in his youth. Imperative is no monster either. Perhaps this is the year the older horses can be taken by the a three year old - even a lightly raced one. I would be worried about a European horse entering the race with Acclamation's pedigree. I just saw Side Glance run in the UN and he seems to me to be an older horse that would be tough to reckon with in the Pacific Classic.
Its just a question of what you feel is a bigger challenge I guess - facing elders at 10 furlongs for the first time or travelling cross country. Untappable is the only horse entering the Haskell. He could walk away with a $1 million win there and still run in the Pacific Classic for the bonus...but it seems his connections want to keep him lightly raced to make certain his feet do not bother him. Zenyatta though was rumored to hate the Del Mar polytrack surface so I hope going 10 furlongs there does not bother Shared Belief.
I also wonder if Jungle Racing is ready to sell him after this year and that is why they are taking such an aggressive approach with him.
Jr., on the other hand, has proven his mettle against the best of his generation this year all ready so I am not worried about him. He'll be fine no matter his prep.
I see what you are saying but I disagree with a few points. I don't think you can equate prepping for the Derby with prepping for the Pacific Classic--especially because of the upcoming surface change, this being it's lame duck running on synthetic. The Derby has the stiffest competition available. The Pacific Classic has, since the advent of Polytrack, been devoid of much A-list depth. This year looks to be especially light. Since Shared Belief is proven on synthetic, I would think this is the perfect opportunity to try him at 10f versus older. Hollendorfer will more than likely run some speed horse to bother Game on Dude only now he will have a horse to track them and take advantage unlike in the San Antonio and Gold Cup. I know your just reporting a rumor but I never believed that Zenyatta hated Polytrack. The only reason a horse hates a surface is if they are not comfortable on it and so they go into survival mode and protect themselves by slowing down--and not just to the extent in which they just eke out a win. The only time I ever saw anything remotely like this happen to Zenyatta was in the early stages of her final race. Her preference may have been the firmer synthetics at Santa Anita and Hollywood Park but she performed well enough at Del Mar. It's taken them a few years but I believe that Del Mar has finally figured out how to make Polytrack a consistent surface in their locale. If not for the reasons of having to redo the base and badly wanting a Breeder's Cup, Del Mar would probably be best served to keep the Polytrack or find a reasonable facsimile. I would have no qualms about running Shared Belief over the surface.
Curtis ... I haven't read your whole post yet (it's long) ...
One quick, seeming misunderstanding is that what I said, or at least meant to say, was they they will NOT have their course dictated by what outsiders or press deems is the best route to an Eclipse. Ergo ... they're not going to run in the BC Classic just because media or fans think they should.
They're perfectly happy with the 3 year old Eclipse.
They're eager to put Junior on the Turf. Per Steve, Art thinks he's going to be a monster on Turf.
One of the BC races they're going to nominate him for is likely to be on Turf. The most likely BC route will be whatever race Tonalist enters. They are eager to turn the tables on him with 4 good feet. They're uber-confident ... well ... at least Steve is.
I'll read the rest later when I have more time.
P.S. - I don't think you're trying to be a jerk or anything, so no worries. I don't view you that way. :)
I think fortunately, only good people are posting here.
One add Curtis ...
If there were nothing riding on it but pride, Steve would want to beat Tonalist. He wants to prove his horse is better ... it's that simple.
But sure, he'd like an Eclipse too ... he figures beating Tonalist is a good way to get it. It's win win for him.
He's not concerned with proving Junior is the best race horse in the country ... but he IS concerned with proving beyond any shadow of a doubt that he's the best 3 year old.
He just basically wants to beat any 3 year old that people may think is better than CC though ... so that may entail beating Shared Belief too. But ... if he could only face one or the other, he wants Tonalist ... he wants revenge ... in a sporting way.
I don't think he's expecting Junior to be better than Palace Malice or Will Take Charge ... he's OK with that goal for next year. Right now it appears to be only 3 year old he's wanting to prove.
As far as the Turf BC entry? Not positive what distances they're looking at. I got the impression we're looking at 8 to 10 furlong races most likely. I think you're right about the Dirt Mile as one of the nominated races. I'm almost positive he mentioned that one specifically. Definitely leaning away from the Classic right now ... but may nominate it in case Tonalist or Shared Belief try it.
Keep in mind that things can ALWAYS change ... this is horse racing you know? ;)
Just letting you know where things stand as of yesterday. We hung out with Steve and Carolyn all weekend at Los Al.
Well, we have seen that the road to Horse of the Year is a mile long and is covered with turf. ;)
Quote from: curtis on July 07, 2014, 09:59:43 PM
Well, we have seen that the road to Horse of the Year is a mile long and is covered with turf. ;)
As far as I've heard, Horse Of The Year is not the goal ... it would be gravy.
An Eclipse for top 3 year old is the focus from what I've been told.
Quote from: curtis on July 07, 2014, 03:00:02 PM
I see what you are saying but I disagree with a few points. I don't think you can equate prepping for the Derby with prepping for the Pacific Classic--especially because of the upcoming surface change, this being it's lame duck running on synthetic. The Derby has the stiffest competition available.
I think we can agree that the Derby has the stiffest three year old competition available - not the stiffest overall competition available.
The comparison is prepping for a 10 furlong race. And I agree there is little comparison because one is a three year old competition and one is open company.
This is a big ask because it involves a lightly raced three year old stepping up to take on elders without having built a strong bottom to him.
QuoteThe Pacific Classic has, since the advent of Polytrack, been devoid of much A-list depth. This year looks to be especially light.
I think I acknowledged that the competition might be light this year and as a result a reason why Mr. Hollendorfer was attempting it. However, I also hope we can agree that if Game On Dude runs back to his performance in the Santa Anita Handicap this year or the PC last year, Shared Belief with a couple of preps against even some inconsistent older division horses has little chance.
QuoteSince Shared Belief is proven on synthetic, I would think this is the perfect opportunity to try him at 10f versus older. Hollendorfer will more than likely run some speed horse to bother Game on Dude only now he will have a horse to track them and take advantage unlike in the San Antonio and Gold Cup.
I would imagine Fury will be in the mix. However, while Shared Belief may have won a minor stakes race over the surface, I do not know that that necessarily means that he is proven on THIS synthetic.
QuoteI know your just reporting a rumor but I never believed that Zenyatta hated Polytrack. The only reason a horse hates a surface is if they are not comfortable on it and so they go into survival mode and protect themselves by slowing down--and not just to the extent in which they just eke out a win. The only time I ever saw anything remotely like this happen to Zenyatta was in the early stages of her final race. Her preference may have been the firmer synthetics at Santa Anita and Hollywood Park but she performed well enough at Del Mar.
It was not a rumor. It was a quote by Mr. Shirreffs in the press. It noted that she tolerated the polytrack surface but did not like it at all at one point refusing to train over it. Good horses do that.
QuoteIt's taken them a few years but I believe that Del Mar has finally figured out how to make Polytrack a consistent surface in their locale. If not for the reasons of having to redo the base and badly wanting a Breeder's Cup, Del Mar would probably be best served to keep the Polytrack or find a reasonable facsimile. I would have no qualms about running Shared Belief over the surface.
And neither would I if the surface were the only issue.
How many three year olds have won the Pacific Classic with it being their first 10 furlong race coming off two prep races for the year?
I do not believe there is anyone who has done that.
Dullahan recently won the race setting the stakes and I think the track record, but he had raced numerous times that year finishing third in the Kentucky Derby and also running in the Belmont Stakes.
So this is why I suggest its quite a big ask for him. Can he win? Yes. But not if all the horses in the race bring their A-game IMHO.
Would I like him to win? Of course. I am a huge fan of the horse (and his connections as a matter of fact). He topped my Derby list until it was clear he would not be able to compete in the race.
And I have said that I defer to the judgment of his connections. They know the horse, the track, and horse racing much better than I do.
I just want the horse to do well (and I want to see him run again in person before he is retired if that is not patently obvious SMILE).
I don't know why people are worried about Tonalist, he has won
the Peter Pan and the Belmont.
California Chrome has won: the California Derby, the San Felipe the Santa Anita Derby
The Kentucky Derby and the Preakness
Just don't see him running the tables and if he did he would have to win at least (3) more
by open lengths to dethrone JR
Shared Belief is another story :chickendance:
Good point.
And there is another dilemma. While many of us believe that CC is the better horse, by running against Tonalist one opens the risk to losing twice to him and starting to allow doubt to creep into the mix. CC had an excuse - he was injured in the gate. To only have the injury cause him to lose by two furlongs was miraculous.
Whereas, if you just follow your own schedule and race your races - even not meeting Tonalist again you are hands down the top three year old UNLESS Tonalist should sweep his next three races (really his last two before the BC - The Travers and Jockey Club Gold Cup).
It will be interesting to see if there are any challengers to Tonalist in the Travers Stakes. His BSF in the Belmont was 100 - so speed wise his effort was not that impressive, but he did win. Will Commissioner turn the tables on him in the Jim Dandy and the Travers. Will Tonalilst opt for the Pennsylvania Derby? It is more money - and running two 10 furlong races in a row may not be what his connections are looking for.
I know I'm a complete outsider, but...Junior is CC's barn name?
Awwwww..... ;D
Yes. I actually like Chromy myself as I enjoyed Streety for Street Sense, and Screety for Discreet Cat. :)
Thanks. I like it!