Flip the Jockeys and Chrome Wins

Started by afleetphil, November 05, 2016, 06:27:29 PM

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curtis

CA Chrome, I'm guessing sarcasm in particular and humor in general are not your strong suits.  Trainers say a lot of things. Often times it is meant to appease owners. Art said during the summer that he liked the way Chrome trained without laisix so much in Dubai, that he wasn't going to use it on him anymore, yet I've noticed that Chrome raced on it in his two races at Del Mar and two at Santa Anita. I've had some contact with Art over the years, he's a nice man. When he'd win a race, in that gravelly voice of his, he'd say, "Hee Hee Hee, Fooled 'em again."  Was he telling me he juiced a horse or fixed a race?  There is also a reason he's spent the majority of his career in no. CA living off of the crumbs left by Dorf. Before Chrome, his best horse was Siren Lure. Remember him?  Art does fine, he knows how to keep a horse healthy and happy and that's most of it. Managing the jock is also part of it. Baffert has no trouble changing jocks. Bobby Frankel used to change them like socks. If Victor wasn't meeting his needs, there needed to be consequences.  For the record, just so there is no misunderstanding, I don't think that Chrome needs a new trainer or jockey. He just ran the best race of his life. Be proud of him.

Man o Taz

I agree. He did run the best race of his life. And I never have criticized the horse's performance at all.

He did as Victor instructed and ran his heart out. My only reservation was whether Victor rode the best race that he could. And I came down on the side that despite Chrome's career best performance Victor did not ride a perfect race. Now, hindsight is 20/20. And there is no evidence at all that had Victor changed his tactics that he would have won the race. But I think he could have finished closer to the winner.

That said, I agree there is absolutely no reason to change trainer or jockey.
"And Allah took a handful of southerly wind, blew His breath upon it, and created the horse.... Thou shall fly without wings, and conquer without any sword. Oh, horse" - old Bedouin saying.

stark

Will Chrome be favored over Arrogate in the Pegasus?

Raven

If Arrogate gets the outside post,and CC the inside post, he should be!
call no man happy till he dies. ~SOLON~

CA_Chrome

#49
Quote from: curtis on November 16, 2016, 09:49:15 AM
CA Chrome, I'm guessing sarcasm in particular and humor in general are not your strong suits.

LOL, true. I have a great sense of humor and can be as sarcastic as the next person, but when others are being humorous it does often go over my head -- especially in the one-dimensional internet medium.

I am very proud of Chrome (and Arrogate), but just am not comfortable with the idea of not riding a horse out to the finish. Once in a while, maybe, but not almost every race like Victor has been doing with Chrome much of the year. It essentially trains the horse to quit before the finish line and makes the jockey over-confident. Like I alluded to in an earlier post, if Ron Turcotte could ride Secretariat out when the horse was winning by 31 lengths, there's no excuse for easing a horse winning by a few lengths.

Oh, and I don't agree that the BCC was Chrome's best race. People say that because of speed figures, but in my estimation Chrome's best race was the Dubai World Cup. He won by 3 3/4 lengths over a stellar international field with his saddle slipped way back, and he set a stakes/track record in the process.

stark

Nobody eased up as much as Mike Smith did aboard Songbird all year.
Did he too cost his horse a victory in the BC?

Man o Taz

#51
Quote from: stark on November 16, 2016, 01:42:15 PM
Will Chrome be favored over Arrogate in the Pegasus?

I do not see any way that Arrogate is not favored over California Chrome. He has two very strong wins. While many here see the Pegasus as a better race for Chrome to win (I am still undecided), I do not think the betting public will see it that way. For the most part, they see Arrogate in the mold of Secretariat and virtually unbeatable. That should change the odds to provide more value in taking Chrome. The only reason why Chrome may still be favored is because of his fans. But I do not think many of them bet.

Quote from: stark on November 16, 2016, 05:05:23 PM
Nobody eased up as much as Mike Smith did aboard Songbird all year.
Did he too cost his horse a victory in the BC?

It depends whether you believe that Songbird running harder in the Cotillion would have given her the extra inches she needed to be victorious.

By her performance it does not look like she was lacking at all, but in a race so close, who knows?
"And Allah took a handful of southerly wind, blew His breath upon it, and created the horse.... Thou shall fly without wings, and conquer without any sword. Oh, horse" - old Bedouin saying.

peeptoad

Anyone going to mention track configuration? Because that almost certainly had an impact as well at SA (and not in Arrogate's favor).

Man o Taz

True.

A shorter stretch meant that Arrogate was likely to have more difficulty getting his big stride going which is exactly why a failure to accelerate on the lead and use Chrome's strengths to their fullest advantage may have been a decisive error. LOL
"And Allah took a handful of southerly wind, blew His breath upon it, and created the horse.... Thou shall fly without wings, and conquer without any sword. Oh, horse" - old Bedouin saying.

peeptoad

tighter turns too.

Okay I stop now.  :tongue:

Raven

Short run to the clubhouse turn!!
call no man happy till he dies. ~SOLON~

afleetphil

Chrome didn't lose the race, his jockey did.

stark

#57
Quote from: afleetphil on November 18, 2016, 11:22:18 AM
Chrome didn't lose the race, his jockey did.

Or maybe it was the trainer being too confident and not having him fully cranked up.
Or maybe it was the accumulated effect of 7 races this year and lots of shipping.
Or maybe it was the 4 pounds he spotted that other younger horse.
Or maybe it was the lasix dosage just a little off.
Or maybe it was the cuppy track and the track maintenance crew.
Or maybe it was the workout regimen interrupted due to rain a week before the race.
Or maybe it was the other horse, hmmm!

Raven

Chrome was fully extended when Arrogate came to him,gave his all,but Arrogate just beat him.
I bet CC in that race BTW
call no man happy till he dies. ~SOLON~

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