Quote from: mchorseracecall on November 25, 2013, 06:40:27 AM

Quote from: Vic in Chicago on November 24, 2013, 05:16:25 PM
In my unbiased opinion, the BC should be run every year in Chicago.  Dirt races at Hawthorne, turf races at Arlington.  Between the two tracks, they can handle the crowds.

Weather here is always great in early November.  What can go wrong?   

Not going to happen, Victor. Personally, I don't support on the permanent move for the Breeders' Cup World Championships. It's kind of like putting the Olympics in Los Angeles and putting the FIFA World Cup in the United States every time during every four year period, or putting the Super Bowl in New York every year, putting a major racetrack to become the permanent site for the Breeders' Cup gives no variety to the horse racing fans. On the other hand, having four consecutive years of the Breeders' Cup World Championships to be in the same racetrack, also gives no variety to the horse racing fans. In my opinion, it should be held in different racetracks every year, having two to three consecutive years of the Breeders' Cup to be in the same location, that's fine for me, and to some of the horse racing fans across the United States.

Mchorseracecall, Vic in Chicago was kidding.

And you miss the point that if tracks in other venues don't bid at all for the BC (New York) or don't offer enough money for the BC (Churchill Downs), the BC is going to continue to run mostly at Santa Anita, given that the BC apparently finds SA's money offer acceptable. 

It doesn't matter where the BC "should" be; what matters is which venues make acceptable monetary offers for the BC.

Quote from: peeptoad on November 25, 2013, 09:34:03 AM

Quote from: Dave in TJ Mex on November 24, 2013, 03:10:51 PM

Quote from: Catalina on November 24, 2013, 10:05:21 AM

Quote from: Dave in TJ Mex on November 24, 2013, 09:53:35 AM
Sure, its all just a massive coincidence. 

Rick Arthur goes past calling it a coincidence.  His statement (very much to my surprise after CNRB's earlier stance) smacks a little of an acquittal - lacking proof of wrongdoing as opposed to declaring innocent.  Baffert, of course, in his subsequent statement claims innocence.

Yup, I don't buy that it is just a coincidence.

Me either.
I think Baffert (among other trainers) was trying to find something to give his horses an edge that was technically "legal".
So, the off-label use of thyroxine was basically to increase metabolism in all areas in order to get the horse to "run faster". All it did was cause a fatal cardiac episode, which can happen with hyperthyroidism, which was basically induced in these "normal" horses given medication for hypothyroidism.
So, that begs the question: why on earth would any decent, self-respecting veterinarian prescribe such a medication to an animal that didn't need it and would (in all likelihood) be harmed by its use? I know that none of the vets I work with would do that...

There have been any number of unethical vets working with unethical trainers for decades now.

. . . horse racing is no longer worth supporting as a sport.

Its ongoing, longstanding refusal to properly police itself.

Pletcher and Baffert are the two biggest names in the training world.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/11/23/sports/despite-the-evidence-trainers-deny-a-doping-problem.html?src=recg

Quote from: Vic in Chicago on November 24, 2013, 06:54:32 PM

Quote from: Dave in TJ Mex on November 24, 2013, 06:28:42 PM
You folks who think Del Mar is not going to be a serious competitor for a BC in 2016 or 2017 (after CD gets it in 2015) are delusional.  Del Mar may be the only track that presents a legitimate bid for it those years.  SA may not even bid to assist Del Mar in getting the BC.

Just because you had a bad train trip to Del Mar from LA will not disqualify it from getting a BC.

Worried about long lines for bathrooms and food/drinks?

What are you talking about?  You've been to the BC at SA, as have I, same thing there.

OK Dave, let's get down to it.  What about the infamous Del Mar ice-cream-line scandal of several years ago, which as I recall, you yourself brought to the world's attention! 

Forget the turf track.  Is Del Mar ready for the ice cream lines?

Eagerly awaiting your response!   

Don't get me started on commercial venues that make it hard to buy their product. 

Why, its almost like President Obama getting the ACA passed, then setting up exchanges that don't work, so you cannot buy insurance even if you want to!   :chickendance:

That, however, was the old days at Del Mar.  From about 2010-2012, they actually had ice cream carts in the stands for easy purchase of ice cream.

So yes, Del Mar is ready to sell ice cream at the BC.

Now if they only sold White Castles!

Quote from: Zenyatta on November 21, 2013, 08:01:06 PM
I understand Stronach, who also owns San Luis Rey Downs, is doing some major reconstruction and expansion there. I know he wants to turn it into a world-class training facility with much needed stables, but whether he's got something else up his sleeve,  who knows?

Nobody is lining up to build race tracks in SoCal in the middle of nowhere.   San Luis Rey is too far from major population centers to work as a race track.  Race tracks are not all that profitable.

Once Santa Anita can average 5,000 a day on weekdays, Stronach can think about building another race track in hayseed-ville, California.

Quote from: Zenyatta on November 21, 2013, 07:26:50 PM
I agree with Baroque, the BC would have to be a few fries short of a happy meal to have Del Mar host the event. It is FAR too small of a track, the turf track in particular is lilliputian, not nearly wide enough, and the stands simply couldn't accommodate the throng.

This being said, opening day does accommodate at least 40K, but very uncomfortably, there's always lines to the bathrooms and forget about grabbing a drink. If it's that bad with 40K, think of the lunacy with 60K there. There would probably be a bigger crowd than at SA, I wouldn't doubt it. It's a smaller metro area and the locals support their local venues with great enthusiasm.

Still, my major concern above all would be the turf track. I had heard they wanted to widen it but how, I can't figure out.

You do know the turf course is being expanded this fall, right, so that it can handle 14 horse fields, right?

They have 47,000 on Opening Day.  If they sell tickets separately for the infield (and put any excess people there, rather than in the grandstand and general admission areas), it would work.

Oh, and you do know that current BC CEO Craig Favel is the former Executive VP at Del Mar?

You folks who think Del Mar is not going to be a serious competitor for a BC in 2016 or 2017 (after CD gets it in 2015) are delusional.  Del Mar may be the only track that presents a legitimate bid for it those years.  SA may not even bid to assist Del Mar in getting the BC.

Just because you had a bad train trip to Del Mar from LA will not disqualify it from getting a BC.

Worried about long lines for bathrooms and food/drinks?

What are you talking about?  You've been to the BC at SA, as have I, same thing there.

Quote from: Raven on November 21, 2013, 03:54:24 PM

Quote from: The Tin Man on November 21, 2013, 01:16:46 PM
Santa Anita ...

Aside from its proximity to me ... I feel that championships should be optimum weather places. I don't want to know who the best mudder is ... I want to know who the best racehorse is.

Sick of so many big races being run in slop.

JMHO

It also rains in southern California!!

A good horse supposed to run even on broken glass! And win.

Yeah, but it almost never rains in So Cal the first week in November.

This year, BC weekend was a wet hot mess in NYC, if you remember.

Quote from: BaroqueAgain1 on November 21, 2013, 03:50:59 PM
2015 Del Mar Fall Meet : the facility is too small, replace with Santa Anita
2016 Belmont Park
2017 Churchill Downs
2018 Woodbine (Canada)
2019 Keeneland: the facility is too small, replace with Churchill
2020 Santa Anita Autumn Meet
2021 Churchill Downs
2022 Belmont Park
2023 Santa Anita Autumn Meet
2024 Gulfstream Park: when Stronach "remodelled" Gulfstream, the grandstand became too small to accommodate a BC crowd
2025 Belmont Park
2026 Laurel Park: the facility is too small, replace with Santa Anita
2027 Belmont Park
2028 Churchill Downs
2029 Gulfstream Park: see above
2030 Del Mar Fall Meet: see above
  Now, if Gulfstream, Keeneland or Laurel could miraculously undergo some necessary rebuilding, then they could be considered (although IMHO lovely and historic Keeneland should be left just the way it is). I doubt that could happen with Del Mar, since it's on property owned by the state and used for many other purposes throughout the year. That will likely restrict any major construction.

Nope, you are almost certainly wrong as to Del Mar not being given serious consideration.

Del Mar is expanding their turf course as we speak and as a result, will qualify for BC bidding.

Its been at Santa Anita a lot.  Supposedly CD will get the BC in 2015, then Del Mar may be in line for 2016 unless Belmont and the NYRA get their act together and put together a bid.

In recent years, SA has been the only  track to put a serious bid in.  CD has played hardball with the BC as to how to split the profits, and I don't believe any of the NY tracks have even put a bid in.

Del Mar is a little small --- 47,000 is about its max, unless you put a lot more people in the infield --- but if nobody else bids, where will the BC go?

Quote from: Vic in Chicago on November 24, 2013, 05:29:40 PM

Quote from: General Assembly on November 23, 2013, 05:42:00 PM
As much as everyone seems to talk smack about this horse, he only lost ONE race in a year. He has a weakness, yes, but who else in his division even comes close to what he has accomplished over the past three years? As much as Baffert said he did better with more time off, I think the break between the Pacific and Breeders Cup Classics was just a bit too much. He might not have taken the big race, but I think his overall resume this year still warrants the Eclipse for his division.

Not to nitpick, but the Eclipse is a one-year, not three-year, award.  And if by "division" you mean "older male", how do you rate him ahead of Wise Dan?  Dan also lost only one race all year, on a last-minute change of surface, and at least he was a fighting second (and won his second BC).  GOD, who I certainly agree had a good year overall, spit the bit in his biggest race.  Just my opinion, but advantage Dan.

Preach, brother!

Quote from: Catalina on November 24, 2013, 10:05:21 AM

Quote from: Dave in TJ Mex on November 24, 2013, 09:53:35 AM
Sure, its all just a massive coincidence. 

Rick Arthur goes past calling it a coincidence.  His statement (very much to my surprise after CNRB's earlier stance) smacks a little of an acquittal - lacking proof of wrongdoing as opposed to declaring innocent.  Baffert, of course, in his subsequent statement claims innocence.

Yup, I don't buy that it is just a coincidence.

Sure, its all just a massive coincidence. 

Quote from: Zenyatta on November 22, 2013, 05:56:08 AM
The casino must be doing fine, since it's going to undergo a face lift. I'm surprised it didn't ho away along with the track.

Thinking a lot about "hoes?" these days, Zenny?

Quote from: curtis on November 19, 2013, 04:25:13 PM
Game On Dude reminds me a lot of both Riva Ridge and Precisionist.  Both of those horses were speed horses who were usually done in, when they lost, by their connections over thinking or in Lucien Lauren's case not thinking clearly.  You could even add Ruhlman before Whittingham got him and just let him roll.  Baffert and Smith should have just let him roll away from the gate and go after the lead.  His best chance was to get the lead clear and that was taken away from him.  As far as big races go I'll say the same thing I always said about Precisionist, who was often accused of not being able to win the big ones, Game On Dude doesn't know if he's in the BCC or a 10k claimer.  It's the people preparing him who know.

Well, you are correct that GOD doesn't actually know when he is in a big race.

But he knows when he is in a big race because that is when he is facing stiff, high quality competition. 

He knows because turning for home, he doesn't have a clear easy lead, but instead, has horses ahead or abrest of him! 

That is his signal to spit out the bit! 

Gosh, I like the intelligence and work involved by the previous few posters to really analyze his past performances and figure out what is going on.

But it all leads me back to a point make much, much earlier in this thread.

The more "conditions" you place on GOD's best performances --- that is, for his best effort, he must break well, must not be "rated," cannot go too fast too early, cannot be "behind" horses, maybe should run at less than at 10 furlongs --- the more it leads me to conclude that when this horse is looked in the eye by really competition in classic distance races, he tends to spit out the bit.  Again, the problem for me is not that he gets beat, but that he seems to quit at the quarter pole.  He has to have it all his way.

On his best day, a terrific horse.  When its not his best day, nowhere around at the finish.

Quote from: Man o Taz on November 15, 2013, 07:39:25 AM

Quote from: FT-TBC-TRF on November 14, 2013, 06:14:11 AM
......against sub par competition.

What do you base that on? Two BC Classic races? So he does not run well at the end of the year at the age of 5 and 6. The notion that he always fades against top competition has been disproven. 

In 2011 he left California three times...he did not win but finished in the money in all of those races besting the following:

Acclamation
Awesome Gem
Flat Out
Gone Astray
Havre De Grace
Headache
Icebox
Inherit The Gold
Prayer for Relief
Rattlesnake Bridge
Rule
Ruler on Ice
So You Think
Stay Thirsty
Tackleberry
Tizway
To Honor and Serve
Uncle Mo

In 2012, he did what only one other American G1 winning horse did that year and went to the Dubai World Cup. True - he did not perform well - but he has never ducked competition.

In 2013 he bested the following horses in his travels:

Ron The Greek in the Santa Anita Handicap and the Charles Town Classic also defeating the previous year's winner Caixa Eletronica.

Remember in the SAH RTG was coming off his career high BSF so he was in good form and GOD dispatched him with ease.

And guess what - the runner up to Game On Dude in those races was among the inferior competition that Game On Dude had been accused of facing earlier that year in Clubhouse Ride who also bested RTG and CE.

Man O'Taz does an admirable job of making the best case possible for GOD.

His accomplishments, as referenced above, make it all the more baffling that in three of the four most important races of his life --- the last two BCC and the Dubai World Cup --- he was nowhere close to being competitive.

That's what so troubling to me.  In those "big" races, he just plain quit.